Most Discussed Books (Page 9)

I've told this story in my book.

Hey, I'm Andy Mitchell, a New York Times bestselling author.

The president responded by tweeting, "It never ends. Now they're trying to say that your favorite president, me, went to Walter Reed Medical Center having suffered a series of mini strokes."

Never happened to this candidate. Fake news.

Trump then repeated the same denial unprompted multiple times throughout the day until the White House physician put out a statement also denying that Trump suffered a series of mini strokes, an assertion that wasn't made in Schmidt's book or reported by any reputable news outlets.

Meanwhile dudes a millionaire. It's like fuck you dude. Yeah, fuck you dude. Get out my face, bro

It's like they're doing it the white as I write this New York Times bestseller.

There was an article in The New York Times that said because of the covid lockdowns, the earth was healing.

Is he got a book coming out called Comedy, Comedy, Comedy Drama?

He's a brilliant writer. And he actually I think it's him who wrote a book on humor that is is a serious book. It's it's how to be funny and it's quite effective.

Is he got a book coming out called comedy, comedy, comedy drama? It's such a great all encapsulating title for his book. He's a brilliant writer.

And he actually I think it's him who wrote a book on humor that is is a serious book. It's it's how to be funny and it's quite effective. I think that's Bob Odenkirk. I'll check later.

I was reading The New York Times recently.

it's like part memoir, but really it's I feel like this is a how-to guide for anybody who wants to just work and grind through life.

It's about my career as a comedy. It's about show biz. It's about hanging in there. It's about a lot of dead ends

I wrote the book for a number of reasons. One, you know pop culture moves so fast these days and a lot of the things I did are smaller cultish things. I'm still very proud of them.

When you read this book I mean the title says little comedy comedy comedy drama yeah I don't know your story a lot of people don't know your story they just see a person on TV they go like this person's amazing

it feels like throughout your life like Saul Goodman you've been just trying to get that grip on on this world in this career are you happy with where your life has gotten to is this like a celebration of that now?

It's about show biz. It's about hanging in there. It's about a lot of dead ends, which I only included about, I'm gonna say a third of the dead ends because it's very hard to write about shows and things that no one's ever gonna see or can see.

I wrote the book for a number of reasons. One, you know pop culture moves so fast these days. And a lot of the things I did are smaller cultish things. I'm still very proud of them. Mr. Show, I was part of Get A Life, helping with Tenacious D and Tim and Eric.

But these things are all gonna get covered over by lots of more gloppy comedy and stuff.

Very much so, yeah. And by the way, I mean, look, I've had unbelievable success in the last few years with Better Call Saul and this film, action film Nobody, played really well around the world. And of course that informs it, but I'm very happy with where I'm at.

I'm very happy with all the variety of things that I did and have gotten to do.

She's also the author of The New York Times bestseller to figure out how Black America can make its second escape from the Democrat plantation.

Off Campus, Elle, Every Year After, The Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more.

Prime originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book-to-screen favorites you've already read twice. Off Campus, Elle, Every Year After, The Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more.

Off Campus, Elle, Every Year After, The Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow Burns, Second Chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen.

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Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book-to-screen favorites you've already read twice. Off Campus, Elle, Every Year After, The Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more.

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Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity in the State of Affairs.

Esther Perel is the author of Mating and Captivity in the State of Affairs.

Esther Perrell is the author of Mating and Captivity in the State of Affairs.

It's mating in captivity.

On the best day.

It was a really hard season, doing a lot of work, really working on one thing, noticing and responding to Bids for Connection.

Esther Perel is the author of mating and captivity in the state of affairs.

Esther Perel is the author of Mating and Captivity in the State of Affairs.

Esther Perel is the author of mating and captivity in the state of affairs.

Esther Perel is the author of Mating and Captivity in the State of Affairs.

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and the State of Affairs.

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity in the State of Affairs.

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and the State of Affairs.

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and the State of Affairs and also the host of the podcast How's Work?

Estera Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and the State of Affairs and also the host of the podcast, How's Work?

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and the State of Affairs, and also the host of the podcast, How's Work?

Estera Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and the State of Affairs and also the host of the podcast, How's Work?

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and the State of Affairs and also the host of the podcast, How's Work?

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and The State of Affairs

Esther Perel is the author of mating and captivity and the state of affairs and also the host of the podcast housework

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and the State of Affairs and also the host of the podcast, How's Work?

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and The State of Affairs and also the host of the podcast How's Work?

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and the State of Affairs

When I wrote "Mating in Captivity" there were a number of questions that guided my entire exploration on the nature of erotic desire in long-term relationships.

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and the State of Affairs, and also the host of the podcast, How's Work?

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and The State of Affairs She's also the host of the podcast How's Work Where Should We Begin beginning June 18th

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and The State of Affairs and also the host of the podcast Hell's Work.

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity, Unlocking Erotic Intelligence, and her new book, The State of Affairs, Rethinking Infidelity.

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity, Unlocking Erotic Intelligence.

Her TED talks have more than 40 million views and her books, mating in captivity and the state of affairs are huge bestsellers.

There's this woman by the name of Esther Perel. She's a psychiatrist. She wrote a book called Mating and Captivity.

And her thing is like how redefining infidelity and how as a society we've been like, no, no, bad, bad, bad, bad.

But she basically is like, you know, who owns our erotic self? Like, do we give ownership when we enter like a monogamy with someone?

Do they own every aspect of that, every aspect of us, even like our erotic self?

And so basically in it, she talks about it's hard to kind of figure out like what infidelity is because so many people have different definitions of it. So I want to go through a list with you guys and you tell me if it's cheating or not.

Esther Perel is the author of Mating in Captivity and Captivity in the State of Affairs.

Esther Perel is the author of Mating and Captivity in the State of Affairs.

Esther Perel is the author of Mating and Captivity in the State of Affairs.

I would say that my entire book, Mating in Captivity, is really about that question, you know, where I began to understand the difference of what does it mean to explore the erotic, but erotic in the mystical sense of the word, aliveness, vibrancy, vitality, energy, life force.

Now, I've written Mating in Captivity to say that fire needs air. This was Mating in Captivity, the quarantine edition.

She has authored two best-selling books Mating in Captivity And the book that we are here to talk about today The State of Affairs

I've read Mating in Captivity And now I'm reading The State of Affairs

I read her book Mating in Captivity but Esther is a psychotherapist.

We did like the first couple chapters.

If you guys want to go back and listen to that it was free therapy and drugs for all.

Like I said the other week esther perrell. She's really moving mountains over here people.

Okay, i'm feeling in my feels every time I read that book

So we figured why not throw a little fucking Esther Perel in here and really raise the level of Education on this podcast today daddy gang you're currently joining Lauren and I in book club.

It's called mating captivity and it is actually pretty eye-opening as delirious as we are It's pretty amazing and so we wanted to talk about some of it and just discuss it because we have nothing else to talk about We've already told you all our secrets.

Here is the premise of the book in this book Esther Perel set out to quote know if it's possible to keep desire alive in a long-term relationship to avoid its usual where and

Everyone knows that everything is fine in moderation, yet we all suck at it.

And so why is that?

I mean, I see the scarcity mindset as really being the view that you don't have enough of something.

If you think about a million years ago when everything we needed to survive was hard to find and we didn't have enough, if you were constantly hyper-focused on the next thing that you might need, you would survive.

We have more resources to help with problems.

which is they're calling for the president to be hanged. The president is okay with it. He doesn't want to do anything. He doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. He thinks Mike is a traitor. This is crazy. We need to be doing something more.

The book 'Scarcity' by Michael Easter is a fascinating read.

Everyone knows that everything is fine in moderation so then the question is well why do we all suck so bad at it?

When you think about how humans evolved everything we needed to survive in the past it was all scarce and it was all hard to find right so everything from food to possessions to information even influence and status the number of people we could influence all hard to find all scares and we live like that for basically two and a half million years and it wasn't until very recently in the grand scheme of time that we started to get abundance of all these things that were sort of built to create so in the past it always made sense to eat more food than you needed if you had the opportunity to hoard items to try and get as much information as you can just keep seeking information all that would give you a survival advantage and then our environments split and now we have an abundance of all this stuff and we're still compelled to just consume and consume all this stuff for more.

She's written a new memoir called Enough.

Joining us here in studio, the star witness of the January 6th hearings, who served as the top aide to Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows. She's written a new memoir called Enough.

It's a book that I believed when I read it, I just felt I was like, I can't believe someone's actually put this all into words. I connected so deeply with it.

It's a book that I believed when I read it, I just felt I was like, I can't believe someone's actually put this all into words.

And basically, you know, you and I love reading philosophy, whether it's the Greeks, the Vedas, the Stoic philosophers. And the bottom line is that what is the good life is a constant priority for philosophers trying to define the good life.

The book is called Scare City Brain. It's available anywhere.

So in this book, *Scarcity Brain*, there's this underlying question I have that is, you know, everyone knows that everything is fine in moderation, and yet we all suck at moderation in some way or another in our life, right?

In *Scarcity Brain*, in chapter 4, you talk about something I was also very, very compelled about, which is you make the case that we have an ingrained sense of not being enough.

You risk so much hesitating to fling yourself into the abyss.

Michael Easter...who did the conference...he's got a new one called uh scarcity brain and he was on the show to promote it and gave me the book and I just just not read it he was on he's become a friend of ours now yeah and he's the books really good it's it's talk about research base but yeah

Michael Easter on Scarcity Mindset,

we're going to have a good time and then versus obviously abundance brain I guess yeah exactly the both sides of it but the.

break the cycle Michael Easter the way we discovered him was through comfort crisis the new book fix your craving mindset rewire your habits to thrive with enough it's called scarcity brain highly recommend it I will be absorbing this this weekend I have not gotten to it until now and I will immediately good stuff

This is a book that I was so excited to get.

And it's another just masterpiece, dude. It's so good.

you just wrote a better version of the book I was trying to put together.

And I bought Atiyah's book and I bought, out of my own money, I bought your book.

And if you have to choose between this one and you haven't bought mine yet, buy this one first. Get this book, Scarcity Brain from the great Michael Easter.

The great Michael Easter wrote a new book called Scarcity Brain, where he talks about how businesses have just straight hacked our minds.

I think there is a section in the comfort crisis, and I've written about this in my other book, Scarcity Brain as well.

Scarcity Brain was New York Times bestseller.

I thought your book... I thought it was great. I thought The Comfort Crisis was a really, really good. I thought this was a New York Times bestseller.

So I think that both of your books, like they dovetail nicely.

He's also a professor at UNLV and he's the best-selling author of The Comfort Crisis and Scarcity Brain.

And now Scarcity Brain, also awesome.

Scarcity Brain, really cool cover too, by the way.

I read the book of Carol duac mindset and it was eye opening

And Michael Easter wrote a great book called The Comfort Crisis.

And I think that's what America's come to. You hear these calls, you're like, how did this person make these crazy decisions? Well, they wanted what felt good in the now.

They wanted to be comfortable now. They wanted the lifestyle now instead of delayed gratification, which has now become a virtue that if you can get there, you're going to have the most wonderful life of abundance and joy and peace.

My son sitting over there reading The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter, right?

As humans experience fewer and fewer problems, we don't actually become more satisfied. We basically just lower our threshold for what we consider a problem.

So we end up with the same exact number of troubles, right? But our problems become more hollow over time as the world has improved over time.

And I think we can all agree that today in by most measurements, the world is way better than it was a hundred years ago, even 50 years ago, 200 years ago.

But we don't often stop and appreciate that.

But when you ask the average American, is the world improving? Only 6% of people say that the world is improving.

I don't know if you've read Michael Easter's book, The Comfort Crisis.

He's a writer and a professor of journalism at UNLV. And he wrote this book, The Comfort Crisis, Embrace Discomfort to Reclaim Your Wild, Happy, Healthy Self.

And I thought it was an incredible book, but the reason I thought of it when you were describing your students, one of the things he talks about in the book is annually he tries to do what's called a Masogi.

And he doesn't just talk about exercise or physically, he also talks about that we are too emotionally comfortable or we don't get bored anymore. And boredom is actually like a sign to go do some things, right, pay attention to these emotions.

But I thought it was an amazing book because I wonder if your students have this comfort crisis where they're afraid to actually fail.

And it's one of those rare books that you pick up and read. And it was like such an aha.

And I knew that the only way to get stronger over time is to add more weight to the bar.

And I knew the only way to get a promotion in your job was to go get more training or to stay late and to get up early and do excellent, excellent, excellent work, which in my world takes lots of revisions and lots of looking up case law and et cetera.

And I know in mental health, the only way like to heal from anxiety is right through it.

And then here came Michael Easter with this masterpiece of a book, The Comfort Crisis and laid it out like, oh, we've created a whole culture that avoids anything uncomfortable.

And we've demonized everything that's uncomfortable.

I better go pick up that book, The Comfort Crisis. What a masterpiece.

I fell in love with her in Wild okay.

I cried my fucking eyes out in the Fault in Our Stars the book and the movie.

Spoiler alert in Wild.

Reese Witherspoon has just come into the hospital bed and see that her eyes were taken out.

I wrote this book on happiness, great, which was happy.

It'll be linked to the show notes, thank you.

It's a lot of it's about Stoicism and an approach to happiness there's very different from the sort of normal self-help book approach.

So I'm suddenly going to get my head around a second book around those sort of questions if you know what it is to flourish and uh be human really.

I wrote this book on happiness, great, which was Happy. It'll be linked to the show notes, thank you.

...it's a lot of it's about Stoicism and an approach to happiness, there's very different from the sort of normal self-help book approach...

The overarching narrative of that book is I spent 33 days in the Arctic.

As people experience fewer and fewer problems, we don't become more satisfied. We simply start searching for the next problem.

In chapter 13 of your book, I think it's chapter 13 where you start to talk about how that is both bad for people's anxiety, depression, and productivity.

The human body is good at two things. One of them is running long distances relatively slowly. The other thing that we are good at is carrying things for distance.

Humans evolved to be good at two things. One of them is running long distances relatively slowly...But the other thing that we are good at is carrying things for distance.

I read the comfort crisis, great book.

I read the comfort crisis, great book.

two different people gave me the book comfort crisis if two people give you a book even if it's on weight loss you should take it seriously and comfort crisis is a serious book it is a great read and I got to know Michael through that and had him on with Mike row and I and a couple other guys as we're talking about the status of work ethic the state or the I don't know the condition of lack of work ethic in America today we did an event on that a few months ago that was highly successful so when we heard Michael was going to be in town we put him on a bunch of our podcast and asking to stop in here on his new book scarcity brain welcome my friend thanks for having me

Yeah like a good horse man breaks late I guess yeah I've surprised as surprised as you are I'm not surprised I'm just I love a book that breaks late like that because that means it's got legs it'll be with us for a while because the contents is so so strong okay so yeah so we're going to have a good time and then versus obviously abundance brain I guess yeah exactly the both sides of it but the

break the cycle Michael Easter the way we discovered him was through comfort crisis the new book fix your craving mindset rewire your habits to thrive with enough it's called scarcity brain highly recommend it I will be absorbing this this weekend I have not gotten to it until now and I will immediately good stuff

And so whenever he's one of the few people and he says read this book, I read that book. And I read the book. It's called The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter.

I finished the book. I immediately walked into my 12 year old son's room and I handed him the book.

And it has opened up some incredible conversations that a year later, it's become part of the fabric of our life.

I finished The Comfort Crisis and I immediately walked into my son who was 12 at the time. I was like, you have to read this book.

So you've written, and I've told you this personally, I think I reached out to you, which I almost never do. This is in the top five most important books ever in the last decade.

I think a lot of what Michael Easter talks about in the comfort crisis really resonates.

The first two books I optioned for my production company were Gone Girl and Wild.

We had a guest on this podcast, Michael Easter. He wrote the book, The Comfort Crisis. It's an incredible book really about how to navigate life generally and doing really hard things voluntarily. He'd go do really hard expeditions and then come back from them with a renewed sense of gratitude.

One of the reasons Michael Easter is on this podcast is that his book, The Comfort Crisis, changed my daily life. The Comfort Crisis made me realize that every activity available to us, easy or challenging, destructive or constructive, can and should be viewed through the lens of whether it spends our dopamine reserves or invests them in a worthwhile way.

Several years ago, the legendary writer Stephen Pressfield gave this force a name in his seminal book on creativity, The War of Art. He called it The Resistance.

We don't tell ourselves I'm never going to write my symphony. Instead we say I'm going to write my symphony, I'm just going to start tomorrow.

And one of my all time favorite books is The War of Art.

If you haven't read The War of Art, I don't know if you've been living under a rock or what you've been doing, but you absolutely should.

I try to pick it up, flip through it, find something, because I think Stephen is just one of the greatest thinkers on creativity and battling this idea of the resistance, that lower self that prevents us from being what we're capable of being and doing what we know we need to do, that sort of civil war inside all of us.

And so in today's episode, I'm bringing you a chunk from Book Two of The War of Art, which Stephen was nice enough to send over.

I carry this in the painted porch. It's a classic. It's a favorite.

Steven Pressfield tells a version of that story also in The War of Art.

He's saying that that's the resistance, right?

The resistance is, well, if I don't really try, if I'm half doing it or I have this addiction or this compulsion or this this other thing, then I can always use that as an excuse for why it's not happening for me.

And then when it doesn't happen, I don't have to feel as bad because it's not a rejection of me.

It's only a partial rejection of me.

If you haven't read the War of Art, Gates of Fire, and any of Steven's books, I don't know what you're doing with your life.

It's a sort of a, the war of art for sports. Uh, but, but like the war of art, it doesn't really matter what you do.

Also like is it on writing again? Yeah it's his memoir about it so it's kind of I would say Government Cheese it's like the stories between all the stories in the War of Art so it's like what he was actually doing as he was learning all that stuff.

Stephen Pressville talks about this, and the War of Art, it's about putting your butt in the chair.

Have you read Pressfield's War of Art no I have not oh we have a copy of it for you

Then I love he sent us a box of them because I used to give it to comics when they would or any kind of creative person when they came on the podcast but Pressfield wrote this book and he talks about the muse as if it's a real thing

You know, that's a big part of Steven Pressler's book. Steven Pressfield?

Excuse me, Pressfield.

Yeah, with the War of Art.

Amazing.

Yeah. His book, you know, is kind of all about summoning. It's about discipline, focus, dedication, but also summoning the muse.

This is the concept of the muse that the muse you summon the muse you treat the muse with respect you you literally communicate with the muse you put this intention out there and if you do this every day she will reward you and she will consistently bring you ideas and if you are a person who can develop that kind of discipline to sit there and do that you'll you'll become productive through the muse.

It's like you got to push past that creepy resistance that Steven Pressfield wrote about in the War of Art.

The War of Art which is a great book and I'm also got it from reading Stephen King on writing and talking to a lot of different writers about how they handle things if you just waited to be inspired and that's the only time you wrote you wouldn't have half as much shit right not even close written not even close half as much good material as you do if you decide I'm going to write.

Um okay the last book I read was The War of Art.

Which is the one you gave me, loved it.

Opened up the doors.

It's great right?

I'm surprised you didn't read it before and I had sworn you'd read it and then I was like when I was like have you read The War of Art and you were like no I was like oh but then you must.

Stephen Pressfield wrote a book called The War of Art and he's a famous author and he's written screenplays and the like but he didn't actually attain the level of success that he was striving until he was about 40 and his whole book The War of Art talks about how there's sort of our lizard brain or whatever you want to call it that tells us to not do something because of risk of failure.

I coined the term from Stephen Pressfield as a great book called The War of Art.

So if you're trying to kick heroin or if you're trying to start a podcast or create a business or find the perfect wife or husband, you're going to find resistance.

This is the way he defines it. This is the way I define it and is this.

And the thing about resistance is directly proportional to the size of the thing you're trying to do.

But what Stephen Pressfield says is expect it don't become emotional about it.

Stephen Pressfield wrote a book called The War of Art and he's a famous author and he's written screenplays and the like but he didn't actually attain the level of success that he was striving until he was about 40 and his whole book The War of Art talks about how there's sort of our lizard brain or whatever you want to call it that tells us to not do something because of risk of failure.

He wrote that book, obstacle is the way, you've got to tattoo it on his arm, and I remember when I first read it, I was like, okay, that's a good book, but I don't know if it's always the way.

And the thing about resistance is directly proportional to the size of the thing you're trying to do.

So if you're trying to kick heroin or if you're trying to start a podcast or create a business or find the perfect wife or husband, you're going to find resistance.

This is the way he defines it. This is the way I define it and is this. Whenever you go to do something in your life or create a piece of art or go make a change or a transformation, you are going to be met by this force called resistance.

And the crazy thing about resistance is the biggest former resistance comes from you.

I think that Seth Godin has written about this, Stephen Pressfield has written about this.

Keep in press field talks about this in the war of art this resistance and I'm saying that the best stuff in life is on the other side of comfort.

Stephen Pressfield wrote a book called The War of Art and he's a famous author and he's written screenplays and the like but he didn't actually attain the level of success that he was striving until he was about 40 and his whole book The War of Art talks about how there's sort of our lizard brain or whatever you want to call it that tells us to not do something because of risk of failure.

It's a little abstract.

Right, right.

Resistance.

Whenever you go to do something in your life or create a piece of art or go make a change or a transformation, you are going to be met by this force called resistance.

Some of you may know Dr. Peter Atia because he's been a guest on this podcast.

He wrote the incredible book Outlive and he talks about how having a strong spine, having the ability to break falls by virtue of training your ability to jump down things and step down things with confidence is essential to offset the aging process.

I want you to pick up his book it's called Outlive, it's a masterpiece it's very long and he does a pretty good job he's the smartest human I've ever come across in my life ever ever ever but he does a good job of distilling this down but the idea is the centering Olympics but I'm gonna tell you he is also somebody who's transformed I first ran across his material back in 2012 when he was in the middle of or beginning he didn't have a gramma sugar for like three years or something like that trying to make some the case about kitosas and things that he's one of the early guys in that um and now I'll tell you yeah ethanol is bad for you alcohol is not good for it all but if you're with close friends and you got the good stuff enjoy your life right because because what cuz what's the point right yeah and so let me tell you some things I don't budge on I work out I move my body every day sometimes that's throwing on a rock a go-rock bag with some weights in it and I walk on a treadmill I got a new assault fitness treadmill it's the greatest thing of all time and I walk on it for half an hour is that a good workout no isn't moving my body yep this morning I went real hard for too long like I over did at this morning that's cool I was gonna do something every day I'm gonna move every day also because of my friend Jordan's side I feel like this show is just me talking about buddies who've been who've influenced my life um I've incorporated a couple of days of movement into my life I went to my daughter's Taekwondo uh practice yesterday and I remembered when I was doing MMA I used to be able to stand just look at it another guy pick up my foot and put my ankle I put my my heel on his shoulder and I'm struggling touch my toes I was like you I'm like I start doing that but I'm not getting up before I am you know why cuz I want to laugh really hard at 9 30 or 9 o'clock or 8 30 with my 14 year old I'm hanging out with my wife I want to be able to be there when my eight year old daughter refuses to go to bed in world bedtime number 14 right I don't want to miss out on that stuff so I'm not gonna get up before I just did a thing with Jaco um a month ago dude gets up for it's high rolls that's cool I'm excited I mean I'm it's awesome it's cool to see that example out there that's not for me and my season with two young kids and a long drive to work and farm chores and a crazy travel schedule so I want you to give yourself some grace is that cool yeah

that's what dr. Tia does so beautifully right and if you've heard about dr. Tia he he trains his patience for this thing he made up called the centering Olympics or the things that I want to be able to do physically when I'm 100 and what do I have to start doing now in my 30s 40s and 50s so that I can do these things later on that's what I need that's what I need okay so I want you to pick up his book it's called Outlive it's a masterpiece it's very long and he does a pretty good job he's the smartest human I've ever come across in my life ever ever ever but he does a good job of distilling this down but the idea is the centering Olympics but I'm gonna tell you he is also somebody who's transformed I first ran across his material back in 2012 when he was in the middle of or beginning he didn't have a gramma sugar for like three years or something like that trying to make some the case about kitosas and things that he's one of the early guys in that um and now I'll tell you yeah ethanol is bad for you alcohol is not good for it all but if you're with close friends and you got the good stuff enjoy your life right because because what cuz what's the point right yeah and so let me tell you some things I don't budge on I work out I move my body every day sometimes that's throwing on a rock a go-rock bag with some weights in it and I walk on a treadmill I got a new assault fitness treadmill it's the greatest thing of all time and I walk on it for half an hour is that a good workout no isn't moving my body yep this morning I went real hard for too long like I over did at this morning that's cool I was gonna do something every day I'm gonna move every day also because of my friend Jordan's side I feel like this show is just me talking about buddies who've been who've influenced my life um I've incorporated a couple of days of movement into my life I went to my daughter's Taekwondo uh practice yesterday and I remembered when I was doing MMA I used to be able to stand just look at it another guy pick up my foot and put my ankle I put my my heel on his shoulder and I'm struggling touch my toes I was like you I'm like I start doing that but I'm not getting up before I am you know why cuz I want to laugh really hard at 9 30 or 9 o'clock or 8 30 with my 14 year old I'm hanging out with my wife I want to be able to be there when my eight year old daughter refuses to go to bed in world bedtime number 14 right I don't want to miss out on that stuff so I'm not gonna get up before I just did a thing with Jaco um a month ago dude gets up for it's high rolls that's cool I'm excited I mean I'm it's awesome it's cool to see that example out there that's not for me and my season with two young kids and a long drive to work and farm chores and a crazy travel schedule so I want you to give yourself some grace is that cool yeah

This is the book that I recommend. If you're going to read about your health right now, this is the book I want you to go and get.

I want to dive into many aspects of the book, many topics.

I talk about this sort of model of trauma where wounded children become adaptive children And adaptive children are there to protect the wounded children

I think that the most important lesson for me in the past decade has been that all the health stuff that makes up most of that book, how do you reduce your odds of getting cancer? How do you reduce your odds of getting heart disease? How do you make sure your muscles work better in the last decade of your life? All those things, they're very important But if you're miserable none of it matters

The book is written basically it's 17 chapters, 16 of the chapters are me writing about it as the doctor, the scientist and then the last chapter, which is about emotional health, is me actually just writing about my personal experience and my own transformation

Your book Outlive beautifully covered these, and I tend to regurgitate some of what you say on this podcast.

So I kind of think of like if you want to live longer, and I described this, I think in chapter four of Outlive, that turns out to be mathematically equivalent in the modern society to delaying the onset of chronic disease.

And we mentioned Peter, a tear earlier, okay? In Outlive he's made it very clear that sarcopenia lack of muscle mass is one of the drivers of mortality. So losing muscle is not a good idea.

Dr. Conti emphasized the fact that one of the ways that we hold ourselves back and indeed can exacerbate the negative consequences of trauma are the ways in which we modify our language to describe those traumas.

Dr. Conti and Dr. Atilla, Dr. Conti emphasized the fact that one of the ways that we hold ourselves back and indeed can exacerbate the negative consequences of trauma are the ways in which we modify our language to describe those traumas.

He is the author of a best-selling book entitled Outlive, which is a phenomenal resource on all things health, span and lifespan.

And he is the host of the very popular podcast The Drive where he interviews various experts in all domains of medicine and scientists as well.

The question is you know do you need to be fasting all the time? Do you need to be doing all of these other things and the answer appears to be Outside of using them as tools to manage energy balance. It's not clear right and energy balance probably plays a greater role in glucose homeostasis than From a nutrition standpoint then the individual constituents of the meal

Finally there is a modern thorough, clear and actionable manual for how to maximize our immediate and long-term health. Firmly grounded in data and real-life conditions, this is the most accurate and comprehensive health guide published to date.

Outlive is not just informative, it is important.

This is a phenomenal book. I've read it covered to cover it now three times. I have extensive notes written throughout, and the book of course focuses on longevity and health span and also has an extensive section on emotional health. It gets quite detailed into Dr. Atiyah's personal experiences with emotional health and tools to improve emotional health that are very actionable for anybody to use.

Outlive is an important book, as is the discussion that Dr. Atiyah so graciously provided us in today's episode.

I think the best way for me to summarize my feelings about the book would simply be to read the back jacket quote which I provided.

The founder of Early Medical and the author of the number one New York Times bestseller Outlive, the science and art of longevity.

I've been following Dr. Atia for a while and I am thrilled to have him on the show.

And the insight I gleaned from Dr. Atia and his work is that it's not about longevity, it's about the quality of your life.

Dr. atia what is this podcast find you I'm at home in austin so let's let's bust right into it yeah can you walk us through your notion of longevity specifically as it relates to lifespan and health span you talk a lot about health span which speaks to quality of life can you break down the physical cognitive and emotional components to per I don't want to say prolonging life but enhancing life would that be a better way to say it

he's also the host of the drive and the author of the number one new york times bestseller outlive the science and art of longevity he joins us from austin uh doctor as you are going through that analysis of the trade-offs in your life and wondering whether it's worth it you do need to add in on the credit side you're having an enormously positive impact on people I think a lot of young people are thinking about health earlier that wouldn't have otherwise had they not seeing your content you're so outstanding at distilling down this information and people look at you and they want to be you so I hope that you I hope that's part of your calculus and we really appreciate your time today

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson and Dr. Peter Attia discuss healthspan, lifespan, obesity, the profound difference simple changes can make, diseases such as cancer and diabetes, and realistic ways you can actively work toward a higher quality of life.

"Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity" (Book):

So I think that exercise is empirically the most valuable tool we have for both the cognitive and physical components.

So, a long while back I was looking at interventions to improve people's lives and I knew at that point that cognitive decline was a major problem especially in terms of productivity and general competence.

You remember Peter Atilla when he came on this show? He wrote the book Outlived. It was on the New York Times bestseller list, I think for 14 months.

You remember Peter Atilla when he came on this show? He wrote the book "Outlived".

He's got a new book out, which you must buy. It's so good. It's number one right now on the New York Times bestseller list for nonfiction and for a reason.

It's called Outlive, the science and art of longevity. And it is a number one New York Times bestseller, which is not easy to do.

And you do get lots of very practical, useful tips, but it's, it's an education on how to think about your life and your wellness.

I think that you set it up beautifully when you started the book with the egg story.

And there's a reason that it's number one on the New York Times. I mean, this is legit.

Outlive the Science and Art of Longevity.

Outlive the Science and Art of Longevity.

I'm far more optimistic in our capacity to prevent or at a minimum significantly delay the onset of Alzheimer's disease than I am in our capacity to treat it once it takes hold.

It's better to be kind of a 7 out of 10 on everything than a 10 out of 10 on one of them and a 0 out of 10 on another.

Eat less, eat better.

In other words, there's something about a lack of agency that permeates this myth. And I think in many ways, that's actually probably what the book I've written tries to cast doubt on.

So in other words, we do have control over what's going to happen to us. We have a lot more control and especially when it comes to our health span.

I wanted to write a book that could be an operating manual for the person who acknowledges that maybe the system isn't perfect. But what can I do to say, OK, like now I know a lot of this stuff and I don't need a physician for it.

And he wrote this new book which is an absolute masterpiece. It's one of the rare books that I believe should be on every shelf in every home in America.

It's a masterpiece. It's so good and I'll tell you this. There's a couple of chapters in here that are worth the price of admission alone.

I bought this book and did my best to get a hold of Dr. Attia because I wanted him to be on this show.

I think it's chapter four I go through and I think make the case that that strategy won't work.

There's a book called The Symbolism of Richard Dadd by Peter Ogwen Jones.

These letters that he writes home also suggest that Richard is struggling with his mental health.

nervous depression

miserable days

the excitement of these scenes has been enough to turn the brain and often I've lain down at night with my imagination so full of wild vagaries that I have really and truly doubted my own sanity.

There's this book coming out.

The biggest scoop is the identity of the racist royal accidentally revealed in the Dutch edition of the bombshell book and sales abruptly halted.

I wonder what Archie's skin color will be like, which is what Meghan Markle said to Oprah and made them go we have to leave and set the world on fire like we hate the royals.

Red red neck he's red neck comedian mom Mama gave me a book on ADD only red one page couldn't stop thinking about crawdad stew come on get some

In Prince Harry's new book, he described Elvis Presley's home Graceland as a dump.

Prince Harry literally describes Elvis Presley's house in Memphis as, and I quote, a Badger's Den.

And then they end up moving to South Park across across from Kyle Anyway, and his book in the South Park episode instead of what is it called spare?

Yes, that's right. It's called wha?

reportedly, the one thing King Charles begged Harry not to do in Spare was to go after Camilla.

he pulled his punches in Spare.

Megan was dying to become Kate Middleton's BFF.

Megan didn't understand why Kate didn't want to hug her at their first meeting.

Megan didn't understand why, you know, appearing in jeans and being barefoot for the first dinner they're hosting for these two.

I remember when "Spare" came out you made all these arguments and I was like a million people in America are going to buy this book it's like the best book of 2023 bestselling book of 2023

Yeah, they don't like Prince. There's really no sympathy for Prince Harry from the book he wrote and for the tell all.

The book's title, Spare, refers to a phrase that Harry writes King Charles used to refer to Harry, his second son as his spare or backup heir since he'd already secured an heir in Harry's older brother.

A physical altercation between Harry and his brother, Harry's admission that he killed 25 people in Afghanistan and to claim William and Catherine, then William's girlfriend encouraged him to dress as a Nazi at a costume party are all revelations included in that memoir.

I don't see it as cutting at all. You know, my brother and I love each other. I love him deeply.

There has been a lot of pain between the two of us, especially the last six years. None of anything that I've written and anything I've included is ever intended to hurt my family, but it does give a full picture of the situation as we were growing up. And also, squash is this idea that somehow my wife was the one that destroyed the relationship between these two brothers.

And so I'm trying to take seriously the way that the world actually works, which is swayed constantly by these sort of random and small and seemingly meaningless details.

And the third part of the subtitle of my book is why everything we do matters.

And I'm bringing it up simply because I think when I say that the first time to people, they say, oh, it's like this turn of phrase that like you could, you know, put on a self-help pillow or something like that. I mean it as a scientific truth.

I mean it that there's literally nothing that we do that has no ripple effect.

And so, you know, when I do go on television to talk about US politics, like you have this really strong pressure to not say, I don't know.

It is one of these things where my world view was upended writing the book and I think a lot of readers have said the same to me.

It says, terrible act of insane woman. Now we probably wouldn't describe it the same way today, but basically this woman, Clara Maudlin Janssen, probably had postpartum depression in 1905 after having four kids in about five years.

And then when you start to play that forward, every person I've met in my life, every conversation I've had, every podcast interview I've done is predicated on the mass murder of four children.

The most infuriating thing that people said to him relentlessly afterwards was everything happens for a reason.

And it's like, no, you don't control this. The illusion that you have over the ability to control things in your life, that is useful up to a degree. But if you really believe in it to the point where you are now worried, you're obsessing over this actually, you're now no longer focusing on the right thing at all because it's really, I mean, they have to do this, right?

He is author of Fluke Chance: Chaos and Why Everything We Do Matters.

Jesus opens up the scrolls in his own hometown, and he begins to teach. But what he taught was the opposite of what the people were expecting.

We're going to dive into the book of Luke, chapter 5.

Coincidences are wonderful stories. I don't want to blow the stories in favor of the mathematics because, you know, I was hitting a nerve on coincidences.

It's called Fluke, The Math and Myth of Coincidence.

If you categorize these coincidences to, let's say, 10 different categories, that particular kind of coincidence, meeting an acquaintance or somebody you're familiar with, in a very strange place, I would say perhaps 80% of all the coincidences I've heard fall into that category.

Joseph Mazur, professor of mathematics and author of Fluke, The Math and Myth of Coincidence.

It's called Fluke, The Math and Myth of Coincidence.

If you categorize these coincidences as an acquaintance or somebody you're familiar with, in a very strange place, I would say perhaps 80% of all the coincidences I've heard fall into that category.

Coincidences are wonderful stories. I don't want to blow the stories in favor of the mathematics because, you know, I was hitting a nerve on coincidences.

It's called Fluke, The Math and Myth of Coincidence.

If you categorize these coincidences to, let's say, 10 different categories, that particular kind of coincidence, meeting an acquaintance or somebody you're familiar with, in a very strange place, I would say perhaps 80% of all the coincidences I've heard fall into that category.

Joseph Mazur, professor of mathematics and author of Fluke, the math and myth of coincidence.

And I think there are books like Chaos where you're like, that sounds good. I really should learn about Newtonian mechanics or whatever. And then people read the first three paragraphs and then that's it.

Look, yeah, in Luke chapter 9 James and John get offended by some merit in village and the first thing they want to do is blow it up, right? Lord, we command fire to come from heaven and consume them and the Lord, no, no, that's not why I came.

I'm so excited to read the books of Maccabees first and second Maccabees to read Sirach to read Wisdom so good and then we go to Luke and then we're all living in the New Testament so that's coming up really soon

I want to talk about your new mind bending book, Fluke, Chance, Chaos and Why Everything We Do Matters, which I found a little bit alarming and scary, but you claim is uplifting.

What we have done is we've ignored that a lot and how we understand the world. And I think it's created this hubris, which leads into the second part of your question about the Black Swans, where I think we have engineered a world that is extremely prone to chaos, and prone to being shocked because of chaotic events.

The idea that you know, a vacation 19 years earlier can cause this massive shift in who lives and who dies in World War Two is the way that world actually works as part of chaos theory.

Because of the ripple effects of all the things that we do, it is totally wrong to say that we're unimportant.

The book is Fluke, Chance, Chaos, and Why Everything We Do Matters.

It's called Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties.

When I finally got that, that was when I could see the hardcover, you know, a few months later, ... it felt like a giant baby being born.

He went completely flat broke and it took him decades and he lost his job because he became truly obsessed with the Charles Manson case and the things that he was uncovering.

And now they have restocked chaos in bookstores all across America because it has been selling out.

I see someone right now in the comments saying, Candace, I'm reading Chaos. I'm so happy to see so many of you guys now diving into the MKUltra program.

I'm so depressed on the weekends without an episode. Also reading chaos.

A friend of mine sent me a book. And the book was called Chaos. And she said, you'll love this for your birthday. And I opened the book and I couldn't put it down.

The subtitle of the book is something along the lines of Charles Manson, MK Ultra in the 1960s.

Long story short, he ends up finding that the CIA was intimately involved. And now this is public knowledge.

Chaos was they needed the hippie generation to end and having this big fake staged Hollywood murder that the CIA was actually involved in and Charles Manson was a fed was a way to traumatize with propaganda, was to traumatize the public.

It's why I say you have to read that book, Chaos, because it deeply dives into the MKUltra program, but also makes you aware of the plausibility of a mass psychosis.

And you know that when we began this independent endeavor, I basically said that reading the book Chaos was required reading.

It was all about the MKUltra program. It was all about the Charles Manson murders that actually the CIA was involved in, like Charles Manson.

As I say, chaos is mandatory reading because everything that that guy was writing just didn't seem crazy about the monkeys.

the book Chaos covered this in great detail for people who are curious about that.

the book Chaos covered this in great detail for people who are curious about that.

Reverend White was reading from the book of Luke to a tall drunk trucker about to puke he had John 316 memorized, trying to dry his ass out to get him baptized.

He tells them that he is the fulfillment of this chapter. He's the one who will set the captives free and bind up the brokenhearted.

You can read all about it in Luke 4, 18-30.

There's a lot of criticism and skepticism at the moment about therapy and therapy culture. Abigail Schreier recently wrote a book called Bad Therapy. She went on Joe's show, she came on this show. What do you think therapy looks like when it's at its best?

But one of the things that he argues for, Abigail Schreier, and in her excellent book, Bad Therapy, also mentions this sort of thing where they want children to have the freedom that they had when they were growing up.

Her upcoming publication, Bad Therapy: Why The Kids Aren't Growing Up is slated for release in early 2024.

And she told me with my last book, I was doing the Lord's work.

She's in her sixties and she really wanted to be of help with my new book, Bad Therapies.

Abigail Shire wrote a book called Bad Therapy, yeah, and I fundamentally disagreed with a lot of the ideas in it, so I thought, and I messaged a friend before I was going to do it and said this is my plan for the episode, I want to make my positions known and not step in and throw a life boy to try and fix the problem. And the, you know, perennial recovering people pleases out there may sort of feel the same, that you say a thing which is going to induce some discomfort or something which is it stops, it's got a harsh end to it, or whatever. And then you say would it be, would that, you sort of bring this thing into land by offering, so how can it be the case that therapy, all therapy is bad, because it allows you or causes you to focus on your, yourself and your issues, but you also include in that CBT something which is unbelievably practical and shows up as an evidence-based intervention for lots of people's disorders. Is it that, and then it's the is it, that you step into soften the blow? I see, so throughout that episode in particular, I had to ask these questions and then as I watch the guest get to this point, which is exactly the reason that you ask a difficult question as opposed to there is this compulsion inside of me, I'm dragged forward to go, what would I mean and, and throw this sort of life boy to them, because sitting with that discomfort.

So I want to thank you for that. It's an incredible accomplishment. But I do want to start with your book Bad Therapy. Tell us about your new book.

Sure. So my book Bad Therapy, Why the Kids Aren't Growing Up, it's all about why this generation, the rising generation known as Gen Z, why the generation that has received the most mindfulness tips, the most wellness tips, the most therapy, the most mental health diagnosis and the most psychiatric medication, they should be the picture of mental health. Instead, they're the picture of despair.

I wrote the book to show it isn't true and to try to stop the constant pushing around of parents by mental health experts.

I want to encourage you to check out Dr. Abigail Shryer's both of her books. They're so well written, so well researched. Bad therapy why the kids aren't growing up by Abigail Shrier.

Check out bad therapy and irreversible damage get them as a combo pack.

Gentle parenting has been a fad now for at least 20 years and it's the therapeutic approach to parenting where kids' feelings are always front and center...and the parent avoids all punishment, tries never to say no.

I don't think it's particularly helpful...if you go on the parenting chat sites where people have tried this and the kids get more and more and more violent, it would be hilarious if it weren't also a little tragic.

Our default must be with kids, you're going to be just fine, because if they hear that, they're much more likely to realize it's true and they're much more likely to develop the internal resources to make it true.

Abigail Shrier, independent journalist and author of 'Bad Therapy: Why the Kids Aren't Growing Up,' joins the FOX News Rundown to discuss why she believes gentle parenting is failing America's children and causing more mental health issues in young people, and shares parenting style tips to keep kids living a structured life.

Abigail Shire has come out with this new book called Bad Therapy basically saying why are kids more screwed up now when there's more mental health resources than anything else maybe it's the mental health resources that are the problem and in a lot of cases that's what's going on the further these kids get into this process and being processed through the mental health system

And she's followed it up now with Bad Therapy and it's out right now.

It takes a hard look at the over-therapization of children.

And you know, I'm very pro-therapy. I've been to lots of therapy. She's got some questions in there about adult therapy as well, but it's about how we're therapizing these children now in school with non-trained, you know, armchair therapists who don't have any sort of appropriate degree who are also really into trauma porn.

So, you know, every day at school now the teacher's like, okay, think of a trauma and how did you handle it?

And they're trying to bring the child back to something terrible that happened to him or her, which in and of itself is not great for them.

in Abigail Shire's book she talks about the bad therapy the bad therapy is divorced from spirituality divorced from the Judeo-Christian foundation

I am going to read this book. A buck has got his own copy as well.

bad therapy really just says that, you know, the, the question is why are these, why is this generation think it's so unwell?

to talk therapy can induce rumination, trapping kids in cycles of anxiety and depression.

Focusing on feelings, which we know are inconstant and often even inaccurate guides to whether we have been hurt or injured or whether we're in the right.

Bad Therapy While the Kids Aren't Growing Up is the book.

Bad therapy, why the kids aren't growing up by Abigail Schrier.

I am going to read this book.

Uh, Buck has got his own copy as well.

Bad Therapy is the book, Why the Kids Aren't Growing Up.

Abigail Schreier, the author of Bad Therapy While the Kids Aren't Growing Up is the book. Recommend you all get a copy of it now.

Abigail Shrier, author of Bad Therapy, Why The Kids Aren't Growing Up.

I can't wait to read this book I know you said you read the opening uh it's the number one book on amazon uh of course did not make the new york times list which we can have a conversation about my book american playbook was the best-selling nonfiction book in america the week it came out did not make the top 15 new york times bestseller list abigael schreyer's book hit number one on amazon kind of a big place where they sell books uh and did not make the top 15 on um on the overall times list so it's interesting how the times claims to care about truth and accuracy and won't even share the books that people are actually buying on its list

Bad therapy why the kids aren't growing up by Abigail Schreer.

Talk therapy can induce rumination, trapping kids in cycles of anxiety and depression.

Social emotional learning handicaps are most vulnerable children in both public schools and private.

Bad therapy is the book why the kids aren't growing up.

Abigail Schreyer, the author, bad therapy while the kids aren't growing up is the book.

I'm reading Abigail Shrier's Bad Therapy right now. Oh, it's amazing. It's so good. I can't put it down. It's really a great book. It's coming out soon and Bad Therapy by Abigail Shrier highly, highly recommended.

I began from a point of taking seriously their pain.

A lot of people look at them and say, oh, they have no reason to be upset, and they've lived through no world war and no great depression. Why should they be so bummed out?

But we have a generation that has lonelier, sadder, more depressed, more anxious than anyone we've ever seen, and interestingly, they've also gotten the most mental health resources.

They've had the most therapy of any generation, fortunately 42% have been in therapy. Huge numbers are on psychiatric drugs, and the question is then why aren't they the picture of mental health, instead they're the picture of despair?

The mental health professionals have been participating in the problem

basically it's called bad therapy why the kids aren't growing up and the two things are related these kids are a wash in diagnosis they don't need therapy they don't need therapeutic parenting constantly feelings focus constantly accommodating their bad feelings and unfortunately it's it's led to a generation that is exhibiting the known harms of too much therapy

we're teaching kids that anything any little harm could be trauma that elementary kids if they got picked on or they got teased a little bit have PTSD it's not true it was never true but it's doing them real harm

we're giving kids unhealthy lives where they're constantly monitored where there isn't a dad around where there is no belief that they are strong and they can go off and do things by themselves without being monitored we give them this unhealthy life we don't punish we never tell them no and then when they act out we pour in mental health resources expecting that to cure an unhealthy life it's not going to cure it it only makes it worse

The book 'Attached' is a good place to start. It describes the different attachment styles.

I would also check out Jordan's interview with Amir Levine. He's the author of the book Attached.

That'll be a really good intro to the whole concept of attachment theory.

Attached author Amir Levine is here to share what the science has to say!

It is called Attached and the authors are Amir Levine and Rachel S.F. Heller and it is one of those fucking self-help books where you're listening to it and you're like, holy shit, this is the thing I needed to hear and it's basically about everybody, people's different attachment styles.

It's about a bunch of different things and I think it's, I was talking to my therapist about it this morning. She's like, but it's not, everybody's not all one thing.

That's my recommendation. It's that good though. Like you're excited because it's that good.

Just listen to it. I mean, you know what you're gonna hear, but the shit, it just feels so nice to hear it.

I think it's called The Attachment Star.

Attachment Star.

Or Attached.

Attached, I think it's called Attached.

So good, fast read and it just will really be helpful for you.

And there's a book that has really tapped into this I think it's the first book that has really addressed this head on and that book comes from two Columbia professors and the title of the book is attached. The new science of adult attachment and how it can help you find and keep love.

I think it's the first book that has really addressed this head on and that book comes from two Columbia professors and the title of the book is attached. The new science of adult attachment and how it can help you find and keep love. The authors of this book are Amir Levine and Rachel Heller.

I am reading here about a popular book, a commercial book called Attached the New Science of Adult Attachment and how it can help you find and keep love.

This came out in 2010 by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller.

I have a feeling this is the book that helped kickstart the reckoning about how adult styles of attachment feed into our romantic relationships.

Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel S.F. Heller

I've got some books here, will link them in the show notes at JordanHarbinger.com, but also list them here for you: Hold Me Tight by Sue Johnson is a great one, Wired for Love by Stan Tatkin, Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel S.F. Heller.

Attached, Wired for Love, and Hold Me Tight are the three books and these are, these go in depth on attachment theory.

I listened to this as an audiobook and...I really do recommend you look into avoidant attachment style.

They're calling them nudge units after Dick Thaler and Cass Sunstein's work but his job is really to create environments that will lead people to make choices that are good for them and that really comes out of Danny and Amos's work

And so he basically talked about how he starts his morning with three minutes of a breathing exercise, three minutes of gratitude, three minutes of prayer, and then three minutes of what he, I think, calls prioritization.

And he says, here are the three things that I need to accomplish today, regardless of whatever else comes into my life or time, etc.

And I love that idea of a morning routine.

And Katie Milkman, aforementioned friend, collaborator, behavioral scientist, and I were hosting Cass Sunstein, who was the co-author of Nudge, the famous book that kind of launched behavioral economics into the popular consciousness.

There's a book that came out in 2009 called Nudge.

One of the central arguments the writers make is that it's possible to nudge people into making better decisions about their finances, their health and even their happiness.

And you can do this, the book argues, by making very simple tweaks in how you present information and options to people.

I was riding off the coattails of famous people like Laurie Santos and Cass Sunstein who wrote the book Nudge and their helping guide the way.

And Cass Sunstein as a legal scholar and he wrote a book called Nudge he was very famous it was used as sort of a handbook during the Obama administration and the idea was well if we can just use a non-forcible means to sort of nudge people in a particular direction without them even knowing they're being nudged then shouldn't we do that and I think no you shouldn't you shouldn't because transparency is the only way I can tell what kind of bullshit you're trying to sell me

Back in 2008, Thaler published a book called Nudge, improving decisions about health, wealth and happiness. It was co-authored with the legal scholar Cass Sunstein.

A nudge, as we will use the term, is any aspect of the choice architecture that alters people's behavior in a predictable way without forbidding any options or significantly changing their economic incentives.

The title of the new edition is Nudge, the final edition.

Here's a relevant passage from the new edition of Nudge. It addresses the concern that carbon taxes will necessarily hurt the economy.

The software our publishers provided when we were proofreading the galleys of this book was so sludge ridden that Sunstein gave up and typed up a list of changes.

There's so much low-hanging fruit because so many things are done so stupidly...The economist Richard Thaler won a Nobel Prize for showing the world how to nudge itself toward a better future. We can't solve climate change with nudging, but we can't solve it without nudging. And he's just published an updated edition of his landmark 2008 book nudge.

Also as coauthor of the wonderful book nudge and the resultant nudge movement.

It came to be called the Nudge Unit after the book of that name by the American academics Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein.

They're also known as the Nudge Unit after the book Nudge by Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein.

Dick is the co-author of an excellent book called Nudge, Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth and Happiness, which shows how behavioral economics can be used in the real world.

so-called meaning they named the unit after this book.

Dick is the co-author of an excellent book called Nudge, Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth and Happiness, which shows how behavioral economics can be used in the real world.

They are more informally called the nudge unit after the book Nudge by the American academics Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein.

The term comes from actually Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein in the book Nudge.

If you've read Thaler's previous book, Nudge, you know he's an economist who studies why people don't really act the way traditional economists say they will.

And so I ended up sending a cold email to Cass Sunstein, who is co-author of the book Nudge and had worked for Obama for four years, and asked if he'd be willing to make an introduction to Obama leadership for me.

Just to say that we had Cass Sunstein's co-author Richard Thaler on the show a couple months ago to talk about their book Nudge, and he uses this term choice architecture and how scientists can create an architecture of choices knowing what they know about the way the human mind makes decisions that nudge people in the direction of positive outcomes, like getting food to kids who might not otherwise get it.

one of the most famous examples from the book Nudge by Thaler and Sunstein was about Putting an image of a fly a house fly on a urinal in the airport

Richard Thaler and so on, who wrote a book called Nudge, talking about the way to nudge people towards pro-social behavior, as opposed to mandates.

So Richard Thaler, author of Nudge, Novel Laureate, he's done some really cool work on what's called mental accounting.

This material just landed in my lap and I really did think when I was writing it, I never had more fun writing a book than I had writing this one.

I knew that some people were going to be a little bit upset with the book, but I thought basically it was going to be taken as a thrill ride and it would just be a fun read for everybody. What I wasn't prepared for was just the sheer volume of the anger.

I first heard about Sam Bankman-Freed at the end of 2021 from a friend who, oddly enough, wanted me to help him figure out who he was.

The argument that McCaskill put to Sam and a small group of Harvard students in the fall of 2012 went roughly as follows. You, student at an elite university, will spend roughly 80,000 hours of your life working.

The biggest success story from earning to give is Sam Bankman-Fried, who's now the richest person in the world under the age of 35. And he's publicly stated he's giving away 99% of his wealth or more and is already ramping up his giving.

That Michael Lewis book on Sam Bankman-Fried has just been published. It's called Going Infinite, The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon.

I'm curious whether Michael's information was helpful to you in any way?

So, John, it turned out that the writer Michael Lewis had been hanging around with Sam Bankman-Fried when FTX went under and he was writing a book about him.

That Michael Lewis book on Sam Bankman-Fried has just been published. It's called Going Infinite, The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon.

We are actually planning to interview Lewis about that book sometime soon.

I caught a little of Michael Lewis on 60 minutes last night and he looked like a dude who knew he was about to sell a lot of Books he looked like a dude who's a lot about to sell a lot of books.

But he's also been getting a fair amount of heat on social media for he keeps portraying SPF and kind of this Sympathetic light everyone's like why are you sympathizing with this guy?

He's not the victim here so various curious to see what the entire book looks like because the Excurbs have been a little too lenient a lot of people are saying for SPF

FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried was a multi-billionaire before he turned 30. But when billions in customer funds went missing, FTX collapsed and Bankman-Fried was sentenced to 25 years for money laundering and fraud. What happened? Find out in Michael Lewis's gripping best seller Going Infinite, the inside story of Bankman-Fried's spectacular rise and fall.

Going Infinite is available in paperback with a new afterword. Buy it wherever books are sold.

Michael Lewis's book, Going Infinite, gives you the inside story of Sam Bankman-Fried's rise, his spectacular fall and the stunning implosion of FTX.

The number one bestseller from the author of Moneyball and the Big Short is now available in paperback with a new afterward on the trial and its aftermath. Buy it wherever books are sold.

What happened? Find out in Michael Lewis' gripping bestseller, Going Infinite: The inside story of Bankman-Fried's spectacular Rise and Fall.

Going Infinite is available in paperback with a new afterward.

I just finished going infinite the book about FTX and even if yes there are parts like many other people where I thought he was being unfair and supporting SPF and I didn't agree with but his storytelling is so good his sentence structure is so good his writing is so poetic that I will read it all day long no matter what it comes out with

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis. Author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liar's Poker.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liar's Poker.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liar's Poker.

On every season of my podcast Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert.

On the latest season of my podcast Against the Rules, I'm exploring what it means to be a sports fan in America and what the rise of sports betting is doing to our teams, our states and ourselves.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liar's Poker.

On the latest season of my podcast Against the Rules, I'm exploring what it means to be a sports fan in America. And what the rise of sports betting is doing to our teams, our states and ourselves.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liar's Poker.

On every season of my podcast Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season's all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling.

his latest book going infinite about sam bankman freed is available now in paperback

Michael Lewis' gripping bestseller, Going Infinite. The inside story of Bankman Freed's spectacular Rise and Fall. Going Infinite is available in paperback with a new afterward.

Bankman Fried's spectacular Rise and Fall. Going Infinite is available in paperback with a new afterward. Buy it wherever books are sold.

Going Infinite is available in paperback with a new afterward.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker.

Hey there it's Michael Lewis, Arthur of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liars Poker.

Hey there it's Michael Lewis author of going infinite moneyball the blind side and liars poker

on every season of my podcast against the rules i take a broad look at various characters in american life the referee the coach the expert my next season is all about fans and with the rise of sports betting is doing to them to the teams and even to my family i'm heading to los vegas and new jersey and beyond to understand america's newest form of legalized gambling

on every season of my podcast against the rules i take a broad look at various characters in american life the referee the coach the expert my next season's all about fans and with the rise of sports betting is doing to them to the teams and even to my family i'm heading to los vegas and new jersey and beyond to understand america's newest form of legalized gambling

hey there it's michael lewis author of going infinite money ball the blind side and liars poker

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liars Poker.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liars Poker.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liars Poker.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liars Poker.

My next season is all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, Arthur of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liars Poker.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, Arthur of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liars Poker.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liars Poker.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liars Poker.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liar's Poker.

Author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liar's Poker.

This is because earlier this summer, I was reading the Splendid in the Vial by Eric Larson. You know this. This is the story of Winston Churchill's time as prime minister during World War II.

This is because earlier this summer, I was reading the Splendid in the Vial by Eric Larson. You know this. This is the story of Winston Churchill's time as prime minister during World War II.

This is because earlier this summer, I was reading the Splendid in the Vial by Eric Larson. You know this. This is the story of Winston Churchill's time as prime minister during World War II.

Vicky

Vicky Army

Vichy

Splendid in the Vile is about how basically the Blitz is the worst thing that ever happened but also brings out the best of people as it's happening.

This is the Eric Larson which is crazy good.

When the pandemic hit, you know, I read a book, the Splendid in the Vial, it was a brilliant book, but it was a new one about Churchill and the Blitz in London. And, you know, it just helped calm me down or read about the plague or the middle ages.

This Blitz book is insane, because it's a story about how the Nazis were jacked up on meth, and they just went all the way through Poland in three days, and that they just never, they never slept. They were just marching.

I'm now reading this Splendid in the Vial, which a lot of people have read. These are big books.

I'm now reading this Splendid in the Vial, which a lot of people have read.

What's his name Churchill's so I read this book Churchill and and it's called Franklin and Winston about their relationship.

I got this book about Churchill and Gandhi. I mean, I'm up to page 30 I started reading it. I think when Clinton was in office helps me go to sleep.

I got this book about Churchill and Gandhi. I mean, I'm up to page 30 I started reading it. I think when Clinton was in office helps me go to sleep.

And by the way, this story comes from The Splendid and the Vile which is a great book by Eric Larson. I sell it at the paint and porch. If you haven't read it, you should definitely check it out.

I'm slowly making my way through the splendid and the vile yes that's great

I was stunned by the way with splendid and the vile to find that Churchill had copyrighted all his public speeches.

I conceived this book in March of 2020, just after my book tour for my previous books, Blended and Vile about Churchill.

I was stunned by the way Churchill had copyrighted all his public speeches. They weren't actually public domain when I worked on Splendid and Vile.

Can I recommend a book called Blitz to be read Blitz?

Before we move on from Germany, can I recommend a book called Blitz?

The Splendid and the Vile by Eric Larson, which is about Churchill during the Blitz. It also has a lot of parallels to our fight against coronavirus and how Churchill did. And it's a total page turner.

It's a total page turner. It's quite a remarkable book because even with the Blitz, people were falling in love, they were falling out of love, they were becoming alcoholics, they were having interesting people over for dinner and conversations. And it's almost a daybyday diary of Churchill's life during this time.

He was last on Fresh Air to talk about his profile of Winston Churchill's leadership in World War II titled The Splendid and the Vile.

And I just was saying previously, I admire your beard. You're going in the Malcolm Gladwell School of weird hair situations, follicular.

So, I had this problem where I'd come home from work and I would complain to my wife about my day and she would give me this really good advice, like, you know, take your boss out to lunch, get to know him better. And instead of being able to hear her, I would, you know, get upset and say, why aren't you supporting me? You're supposed to be on my side. And then she would get upset because I was attacking her for giving me good advice. And I wanted to understand what was going on.

And one of the things that we know now is that we think of a discussion as being about one thing, but it's actually many different kinds of conversations. And in general, they tend to fall into one or three buckets. There's practical conversations where we're solving problems, we're making plans together. But then there's emotional conversations where I tell you what I'm feeling and I don't want you to solve my feelings. I want you to empathize. And then finally, there's social conversations about how we relate to each other.

So, you know, you're from 1864, say Arizona. I look like Lenin if he was less sexy.

And so I went out to researchers and I asked them, you know, why am I miscommunicating? I'm a professional communicator. I'm an age of understanding communication. And one of the things that we know now is that we think of a discussion as being about one thing, but it's actually many different kinds of conversations.

He was actually, he was on, I think it was on NBC, MSNBC, and he was on All Years English and he is on many other shows.

So what our listeners could do is just type in Charles Duhigg, find his interviews, his round of interviews. He's done on multiple podcasts and listen to all of them.

It's going to be more or less about the same topic of how to be a super communicator, but you're going to have different angles.

I started reading your book, your new book called, what is it called? What's the new book that you have out here?

Super communicators. Unlock, how to unlock the secret language of connection.

And I saw that title and I said, boom, that's it. We need to have you on the show because here at All Years English, that is our vision.

Even better news one of the finest journalists of our age Charles do Hig is now out with a whole book where he dives into said research and describes in very lucid terms how to deploy it in your life how to become what he calls a super communicator.

And his latest book is called super communicators.

You mentioned super communicator, I want to get to that term in a second but since we're on the matching principle, is it just about picking up on the words people use or can it be something about body language?

So it sounds like she's a super communicator not just with you but with other people.

Super communicators are people who consistently can do this because they've thought about how conversations work.

The difference is that there are some people who have thought about this a little bit more deeply, who have practiced it a little bit more and they can be super communicators whenever they want to be because oftentimes when it happens in our life it just sort of it feels like chance right like either we know someone so well or we walk into a meeting and we know exactly what to say but then we walk into another meeting and we can't persuade anyone.

And the way that they work in real life is to usually ask a simple question and then follow up by trying to make it deep such as what do you do for living? I'm a lawyer. Do you love practicing law? Did you always want to be a lawyer? When did you decide to go to law school?

We've talked about a bunch of really winning and scientifically validated ways to become a super communicator.

And we have the author here, Charles Duhigg, who is the author of Super Communicators. It's actually called Super Communicators, How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection, the full version of that title.

But Charles is a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter and the author of two other incredible books

I kept on finding myself in these situations. Like I was made a manager at work and I was really good at the logistics part of the job. But then people would come to me with problems and, and I thought I was hearing what they were saying, but, but they would walk away frustrated and I would be frustrated or, or I'd come home from work after a tough day. And I'd, I'd be talking to my wife and I'd say, you know, like my boss is a jerk and my colleagues don't appreciate me.

And she would give me this really good advice, which is like, why don't you just like take your boss to lunch and get to know each other.

And most of those conversations fall into one of three buckets. There's these practical conversations where we're talking about plans and fixing problems. There's emotional conversations where our goal is not to fix a problem, just to explain how we feel. And then there's social conversations, which is about how we relate to each other, both interpersonally and you know, through society.

And they said, this is what's happening with your wife. You're coming home and you're having an emotional conversation. You're upset.

And oftentimes the way that we, particularly if we're not practiced at reading someone's emotions, a great habit to get into is to first of all force ourselves just to pay attention and listen for when someone says something that seems emotional, that's that comes out of nowhere, right?

Somebody's walking into a situation where they need to become the super communicator. They're going to go out and buy your book for sure, but is there a cheat sheet for getting the best out there?

And think about how much you just told me in that answer, right? You told me that you're someone who values curiosity, that you value passion. You've told me that you're proud of the fact that you've done 500 episodes, right? Like you mentioned, the fact that you mentioned that means that like, that's an accomplishment for you. And so that creates a conversation and a feeling in there where they're gonna want to reciprocate, maybe not even write immediately, but I bet they're gonna go back to you at the office and the next time they see you ask something about how was your weekend, right?

Everybody needs to read this book for sure.

And all of us can be super communicators all the time if we just spend a little bit of time thinking about what we want to say and spend a little bit of time thinking about how we learn to listen.

So on that note, Charles Duhigg, author of Super Communicators, it was awesome having you on and very, very excited to meet you and also to have everybody

His newest book, Super Communicators Out Now, fits squarely in the focus of this podcast.

In super communicators, you do a really nice job of explaining the role of connection and alignment in successful communication.

I just read this in a book called Super Communicators by Charles Duhigg is that most people really don't want to do shallow, small talk.

I was interviewing Charles Duhigg who wrote this book, Super Communicators, and he was saying he knows when he asks a question and the person has a quick answer or an answer that is prepared, that he's not asked a new question.

Want to master the art of communication? Charles Duhigg, author of Super Communicators, reveals key strategies for enhancing your connections and conversations in this enlightening podcast episode.

Want to master the art of communication? Charles Duhigg, author of Super Communicators, reveals key strategies for enhancing your connections and conversations in this enlightening podcast episode.

Then he wrote this new book, Super Communicators, How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection.

And she kept going like multiple times throughout the last month and a half, having been reading this book, Super Communicators.

She is normally not interested in any of the guests on the podcast at all let alone reading the books and she keeps like I would say at least five times she was like so it's reading in this super communicator.

I think it's a great book.

We do have signed copies of The Power of Habit and Super Communicators in the painted porch.

I'm so excited to get into your new book, Super Communicator.

Well then if you want a happier life, pick up Super Communicators.

Super Communicators is on sale in any bookstore you like. Amazon, your local independent bookseller, Audible if you want to listen to it instead of read it.

Or you can Google Super Communicators or The Power of Habit, which is the first book that I wrote.

I'm so excited to get into your new book, Super Communicator.

Well, then if you want a happier life, pick up super communicators.

And his new book is called Super Communicators, which is gonna be the focus of today's conversation.

When we look at super communicators, we see some sort of consistent behaviors beyond asking deep questions and beyond looping for understanding.

Finally, our Friend of Pivot is former U.S. Attorney, Barbara McQuade, who's written a new book, "Attack from Within: How Disinformation is Sabotaging America." Barbara explains how she thinks disinformation can be defeated.

As Barb says in her new book, Attack from Within, even as authoritarians claim the mantle of law and order, they work the fairness and independence of the judiciary undermine the credibility of the courts and judges in the eyes of the public.

It's called Attack From Within. How Disinformation is Sabotaging America.

It comes out later this month.

So we thought it would be a good time to talk about your book given that the Supreme Court is weighing a challenge to some laws that were in some respects designed to facilitate disinformation on social media laws that sought to ensure social media companies weren't censoring anti vaccination posts or election denialism and at the beginning of the next sitting the court is going to be hearing a challenge to some government action that is designed to combat disinformation there the government encouraging and calling for companies to remove vaccine disinformation from websites plus with the recent immunity actions pertaining to another thread in the book disinformation threat to democracy seemed like a great time to talk about attack from within so first question in the book you identify some of the tactics of disinformation you know that proponents of disinformation use could you run us through a few of them

I'll share just a few of them so you know one is this idea of repetition that if you repeat something often enough people will tend to believe it so you know we heard Donald Trump talk about stop the steel just this weekend I heard Steve Bannon at the CPAC conference getting the crowd to chant trump one trump one trump one and this is a tactic that goes you know back to the dawn of human history Hitler wrote about it in mind comp the idea that you need simple repeatable statements that people hear again and again and then if they hear it not only from a single source but they start hearing it from other sources it becomes self affirming that people start hearing this thing and think it to be true so that's one another is the big lie make of lie as big as possible and certainly we've heard you know the the stolen election was trump's big lie at just as we had you know Hitler's big lie and what Hitler wrote in mind comp was the reason a big lie works better than small lies is because of human nature we all you know engage in small lies from time to time my sister might tell me yeah your hair looks fine or my husband might say no dear you know that dress isn't make you look fat but we we engage in those white lies out of a place of kindness and courtesy to other people but what Hitler wrote in mind comp is that most people could never imagine that someone would have the audacity to lie about something of such significance and for that reason in an ironic way the bigger the lie the more likely we are to believe it and then just one more I'll mention Leah and that is this idea of destroying the concept of truth and this is something that I think we are seeing I'm hearing an awful lot of from the right I did an interview today with someone who said well who's to say what's disinformation anyway you know the idea that there really is no such thing as discernible facts or evidence or data and this is something that Putin in Russia uses it is sometimes referred to as the fog of unknowability to give inconsistent statements about something to say on one day you know the rockets were shot by Russia and the next day the rockets were shot by Ukraine and the day after that the rockets were shot by NATO and people you know eventually get throughout their hands and they say I don't know what to think they're angry they become cynical and finally they become numb and then disengage from politics altogether because I don't know what to think and that is incredibly dangerous for a democracy to have people disengaged from politics so those are just some of the tactics yeah the book covers many more and I'm going to ask you about some of them because when you were giving your first answer talking about simple lies that are just like repeated again and again to reaffirm them I couldn't help but think in your description about the overly simplistic claims that some in the Republican Party or the conservative legal movement have talked about the courts right you think about originalism the idea that our Constitution is just what the original meaning of the document is it's simple right it's overly simplistic and it doesn't capture a lot of constitutional law but they keep saying it right and that has helped kind of give it traction you know in the courts and the broader you know public in some respects but okay so in the book you also talk about the causes of disinformation you know some of which are global and some of which are more particular to the United States so what are some of the causes of you know disinformation that you go over in the book

the insurrection theory of the second amendment which was a framing I loved and how the court has taken again this constitutional provision built a story around it that isn't really rooted in real history and has the potential to do real violence right and cause real problems to our system of government

I am a ardent defender of the first amendment I think the first amendment is what protects us from powerful voices and allows us to protest our government and the things we talked about when our institutions fail us and so it's a really important right but I think that because we have this right that is so cherished by the left and the right it can sometimes be used as a handy shield to call anything that in any way limits speech as censorship and of course like all rights the right to free speech can be regulated I mean you cannot engage in threats that is a crime even though it is speech you can't commit fraud that's a crime even though it all is all about speech right I tell you I want to sell you some swan planed in Florida that's speech and so that can be regulated it has to you know comply with strict scrutiny that the name of this podcast that there's a compelling governmental interest and that the limits are narrowly tailored to achieve those interests but I think you know what we're seeing now in these cases that were just argued before the Supreme Court about these laws enacted by states designed to stop what they call censorship by social media platforms in my view in fact these state laws are not preventing censorship they are violating the first-minute rights of the social media platforms whoever right to take down content that they believe violates their terms of service users sign an agreement that has certain terms of conditions that community standards that there will be moderation so that people won't be harassed and bullied and threatened when they're online and won't be exposed to disinformation about COVID vaccines or stolen elections or other things and so you know in an effort to stop those things the states of Florida and Texas have called that censorship and said that they are silencing conservative voices well yeah conservative voices that are lying and and it's not opinion certainly if somebody has a very conservative or viewpoint done something let's hear it let's debate it let's hear it out let's try to you know reach common ground and solve problems but if there are things that are factually demonstrably false you know that COVID vaccine will make you magnet it for something like that there's no place for that in our serious discourse and in addition to the causes of disinformation and the tactics of disinformation the book also gets into some solutions we are not going to canvas those in depth but I very much encourage our listeners to check out Barb's book attack from within how disinformation is sabotaging America in order to learn more about disinformation and what to do about how to address it

Barb is author of the book Attack from Within, How Disinformation is Sabotaging America.

Yeah, I think one of the things, as Joyce just said, is this effort to undermine respect for the rule of law, people choosing their political tribe over the truth or over the law.

And what that has a tendency to do is to cause a loss of respect for the rule of law. When people believe that the law is simply one more partisan political tool, it loses all of its value.

And ultimately, that leads ordinary people to feel that they don't need to obey the law or even vigilante violence to achieve the result they can't get through the political process.

This idea of--that law enforcement has been weaponized simply to go after Donald Trump I think is incredibly dangerous, investigating the investigators.

Her new book is entitled Attack from Within. How disinformation is sabotaging America.

Former U.S. attorney Barbara McQuaid, thank you very much. Her new book is entitled Attack from Within. How disinformation is sabotaging America.

The new book Attack From Within how disinformation is sabotaging America is on sale today.

Congratulations. Great to see you, Barbara.

Barbara Quaid is a law professor at the University of Michigan, a former U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan, a legal analyst for NBC and MSNBC and the author of Attacks from Within which methodically dissects the domestic disinformation threat and proposes a raft of solutions.

This information is a serious threat to American national security, I've seen the threat evolve from al-Qaeda to ISIS to cyber to Russia to disinformation coming from within our own country.

And in 2017 I started teaching this national security course and in probably about 2018 I started teaching the Mueller report as part of the national security class on disinformation.

Misinformation, as I define it, is the unwitting spreading of disinformation. So plenty of people read something online, they assume it to be true, and they pass it on.

And I think all of us have likely been what some people refer to as useful idiots or unwitting dupes from time to time with and I realized I had been duped.

A significant number of Americans don't seem to care anymore whether a statement is true what seems to matter instead is whether any given message is consistent with their worldview.

Attack from Within, How Disinformation is Sabotaging America.

We heard Republican voters in Michigan's Barbara McQuaid, writes in her new book, Attack from Within,

author of the book Attack From Within, How Disinformation Is Sabotaging America.

Disinformation is the deliberate use of lies to manipulate people and advance an agenda.

Misinformation is kind of its unwitting cousin. We hear something we think it's true, but it's a lie, and we amplify the claim exponentially.

These are deliberate efforts to stoke division in society.

One of them is this idea of declinism, society is going downhill, everything's awful, cities in ruins, American carnage.

And in fact, if you look at the data, crime rates are down, the economy is up, all of the indicators are actually on the upswing.

disinformation is the deliberate use of lies to manipulate people and advance an agenda.

Society is going downhill. Everything's awful. Cities in ruins, American carnage.

if we can talk about the society as being down, then it allows us to say, well, these extreme times call for extreme measures.

We care about being loyal to the team. ...loyalty to the team becomes more important than truth.

we're the party that's going to make you safe because we're preying on your fear.

Disinformation is the deliberate use of lies to manipulate people and advance an agenda.

Misinformation is kind of its unwitting cousin. We hear something. We think it's true, but it's a lie and we amplify the claim exponentially.

One of them is this idea of declinism. Society is going downhill. Everything's awful. Cities in ruins. American carnage.

These are some of the same tactics that Hitler talked about in Mein Kampf and used in Nazi Germany in the 1930s.

One thing that really resonated to me is tribe over truth.

In 2017, she was among the U.S. attorneys forced to resign under the Trump administration. Today, she's a professor at the University of Michigan Law School and author of Attack from Within, How Disinformation is Sabotaging America, and the forthcoming book, The Fix, Saving America from the Corruption of Mob-Style Government.

And the reason that Ron Chernow wrote the biography that inspired the musical was that he was the least known and least celebrated and most obscure of the founding fathers.

And we forget this now, but Chernow's biography was written to overturn a whole set of very substantial prejudices against Hamilton.

Chernow has completely changed the view in scholarly circles and the musical and all the songs and sellout shows have changed his view on a popular front.

And in it, Chernow says, look, this is a man, why don't you know him better?

But Chernow describes St Kitts and Nevis as a tropical hellhole of dissipated whites and fractious slaves.

This book I brought up here with me today was written in 2004, and it was a New York Times bestseller.

In 2007, a 27-year-old young man walked by this book just before he went on vacation in Mexico.

He needed something to read because he really needed to disengage his mind.

The book, of course, is the biography of Alexander Hamilton written by Ron Chernow, and the person who picked it up is none other than the great prophet Lin-Manuel Miranda.

I was listening to the Thomas Jefferson. No, there's not Thomas Jefferson Alexander Hamilton book.

You know, read, read Alexander Hamilton by Chernow and in the later chapters where it talks about a lot of the political infighting and you sit there and say, wow, that sounds so familiar.

That does not line up with what my view of George Washington from Hamilton either.

It's from Hamilton.

In the category of best song on the hamilton soundtrack the nominees are Satisfied The skylar sisters Helpless Cabinet battle number one Burn The room where it happens Dear theodosia Cabinet battle number two It's quiet uptown kelly clarkson cover It's quiet uptown renee elise gillsbury original song And say no to this

James Madison, famously featured in Hamilton, is on record saying that weed gives him the insights he needed to create a new democracy, which in fairness, that sounds like something someone would say when they were really high.

I just read a Chernoff's biography of Hamilton.

And he writes like poetry and he brings this guy to life.

It's literally on our bookshelf right now.

Maria from Boston said Larsa why did you get all this work done did you think you weren't hot enough or did you feel like you had to compete with certain friends and L. M. Miranda says Alexander Hamilton Alexander Hamilton I think this was for you Alexia sorry my name is Alexander Hamilton

Hamilton, 2004 by Ron Chernow.

Hamilton, 2004 by Ron Chernow.

And he's a fast reader, so he brings along one really big book to sustain him on vacation, which is Ron Chernow's biography of Alexander Hamilton.

In Disloyal, that would be Cohen's first book.

You described your feeling for President Trump as being obsessed.

Correct.

Correct.

But your obsession for you, you admired him even before you started working for him.

And I can tell because there's an entire chapter that's dedicated to his hair.

It's called the name of the chapter is called Flip, Flat, Flop.

OK, let me let me just say to you, he did try a hair transplant.

That's the reason for the flip, flat flop.

And so, you know, hence again, the flip flop flop, which is to cover the scars that resulted from a botched or a non successful hair transplant.

He's written two books.

I think probably been on innumerable interviews and podcasts

and I think he has felt it's in his interest to speak and speak a lot and speak continuously and try to equal the volume and one messageness of the former president.

And anyway, Michael Cohen did what Michael Cohen thought he needed to do.

And Cohen talked about that in his book. It's indisloyal. If you go read his book, he talked about it. It wasn't like Trump's lawyer went, aha, look what I've discovered. Just go and read Cohen's book, do a scintilla of research, and you would uncover that.

In Disloyal, that would be Cohen's first book, you described your feeling for President Trump as being obsessed, correct?

Correct.

If you read his book, if you really talk to him, he loves to say, you know, it was very clear to me what I needed to do on January 6th. I needed to defend the Constitution.

And Mike Pence, in his book, has already said that he was sort of horrified when he saw that.

And he was like, okay now is the time like it's not like he effectively took a courageous position

And he was like, okay now is the time like it's not like he effectively took a courageous position

Cohen admits he's made roughly $3.4 million in sales of his two books over the past four years, both of which were about Trump.

What's interesting is that it's also comes with a Michael Cohen book, which I think is even more accurate about Trump, right?

even though he's what happens when a liar tells the truth like that's the problem like a persistent and pernicious and awful.

it sort of reminds me of the mob when they turn on each other, right? So he's the lower guy, you know, who turns on the boss. That's really what's happening there.

it says, in Cohen's recent memoir Disloyal he recounts Trump returning from his 2011 meeting with pastors who laid hands on him and sneering, can you believe that bull crap? But if Trump found their rituals ridiculous, he followed their moneymaking ventures closely.

Cohen also penning not one but two books, a 2020 memoir titled Disloyal and 2022's Revenge, how Donald Trump weaponized the U.S. Department of Justice against his critics.

Liz Cheney has just written a sort of red-hot new book. It is titled Oath and Honor, a memoir and a warning.

She's going to be here with me to talk about it in her first primetime interview.

Again, we have never done an interview before.

I'm going to be speaking with her in public for the first time here ever.

You have not heard about what is in her book because it's all under a very tight embargo.

I read Liz Cheney's book when it came out and the first few chapters are chilling in her discussion about the concern of what was happening at the Department of Defense and the military.

Oath and Honor which is still on the bestseller list and I really urge everybody to read this book or listen to it on audio please and tell everyone you know too it is amazing and it's gripping and it goes really quickly for a few weeks after that was released Tim she didn't remember she was like I don't know if I'm going to run for president I think I was just gonna sell more books but she shut it down pretty quickly and ever since then she's made it clear like she said about bad policy we can live with bad policy we can't live with Trump destroying the constitutional order so she's been very clear about that and I think it's so so energizing not only for us but I think it's gonna break through to people in ways that you know we can't really even count yet we can't like you know quantify it I think it's amazing

Joining us today, the vice chair of the January 6th committee and author of the new book Oath and Honor, a memoir and a warning. Former Wyoming representative Liz Cheney.

Joining us today, the vice chair of the January 6th committee and author of the new book Oath and Honor, a memoir and a warning. Former Wyoming representative Liz Cheney.

Mar-a-Lago? What the hell, Kevin? Kevin McCarthy. They're really worried. Trump's not eating. So they asked me to come see him.

he knows it's over. He just needs to go through all the stages of grief.

the stages of grief also apparently included tweeting in all cap letters.

these are the things we do for our orange Jesus.

as he moved down the line, signing his name to the pieces of paper, Green said sheepishly to know and in particular the things we do for the orange Jesus.

even Liz Cheney in her book talks about how important it was that they videotaped every interview, but yet they did not preserve those.

She will join our set to discuss her new book, Oath and Honor.

Liz Cheney joins us now. She is a professor of practice at the University of Virginia Center for Politics and author of the new book out today entitled Oath and Honor, a memoir and a warning.

And I think that that the the founders were very clear about trying to ensure that people who are elected in an elective office swear an oath to the Constitution and put something above, you know, what they called factionalism, allegiance to a single individual.

And I think what we've seen over the last couple of years is how important that really is, how much that really matters and what we have to demand of our elected officials.

The book is filled with vivid illustrations of how much power Trump wielded over your Republican colleagues, including how Kevin McCarthy, then speaker, would sometimes let him listen in secretly to your weekly meetings.

The subtitle of the book Oath and Honor is A Memoir and a Warning.

Orange Jesus was one of my favorites

Ted Cruz is an idiot and a suck up. You know, Mike Johnson is a suck up.

He's the one that would upend democracy.

I supported his policies. I think over 90% of the time. Yeah, 93.

So the book I imagine will scoop some of Liz Cheney's memoir, Oath and Honor that's coming out, which is a different title. It's set to come out later this year.

So Liz Cheney has a hate Trump book out.

Her book came out yesterday. It's number one on Amazon.

There's a lot of people that can't get enough of hating Trump.

She is out now with a new book, a bestselling book. . . Her book is at the top of the Amazon bestsellers list. And I have to tell you, this book, Liz Cheney's Oath and Honor, a memoir and a warning.

This is the story of the moment, she writes, when American democracy began to unravel. It is the story of the men and women who fought to save it and of the enablers and collaborators whose actions ensured that the threat would grow and metastasize.

The subtitle is A Memoir and a Warning, but the story is the warning, isn't it? As you go through in detail, I have to say when I picked up the book, I was not sure that I was going to learn a lot of new things, but you name names and you put it in detail.

My regret is that I ever supported Donald Trump.

The book is Oath and Honor, a Memoir and a Warning by Liz Cheney, national bestseller again.

Her new memoir is titled Oath and Honor, a memoir and a warning.

Liz Cheney's new book is called Oath and Honor, a Memoir and a Warning.

She describes it as the story of the moment American democracy began to unravel and the story of the most dangerous man ever to inhabit the Oval Office.

The warning is about the threat to our democracy if Trump is reelected in 2024.

You write that sometimes Kevin McCarthy had Trump secretly dialed in to meetings not informing the entire Republican conference.

My guest is Liz Cheney, who has written a new memoir which she describes as, quote, the story of the moment American democracy began to unravel and the story of the most dangerous man ever to inhabit the Oval Office, unquote.

Her new memoir is titled Oath and Honor, a memoir and a warning.

Her new memoir is called Oath and Honor, a memoir and a warning.

Her new memoir is called Oath and Honor, a memoir and a warning.

This Cheney's new book is called Oath and Honor, a memoir and a warning.

It's funny you say that because I often think about how when Thomas Paine writes Common Sense in The Leader of the Revolutionary War he's on the radical fringes of the people who are agitating and he was a real committed small-D Democrat particularly compared to his cohort.

And then a guy named Thomas Paine who wrote the book common sense, but he was one of the founding fathers. Great, great things. But Thomas Paine wrote a series of pamphlets because he knew that they needed to motivate that percentage of Americans who did not want to go against England to motivate him to do something about it. And so he wrote something called the American crisis.

The bestseller in colonial America was Thomas Paine's Common Sense and exactly what you're talking about.

The bestseller in colonial America was Thomas Paine's Common Sense and exactly what you're talking about.

This was a pamphlet that many, many colonial Americans heard about, which is a remarkable thing considering how anemic the kind of media infrastructure was at the time.

The bestseller in colonial America was Thomas Paine's Common Sense and exactly what you're talking about.

That book, that pamphlet was read aloud in taverns and churches and city halls and squares across the country and was probably in terms of a kind of cultural zeitgeist or what we would call a kind of water cooler moment where everybody is talking about the same piece of media was probably as galvanizing and as momentous and as influential and as broad of a readership as any book since, you know, Harry Potter, Taylor Swift, whatever kind of contemporary examples we could think of.

The bestseller in colonial America was Thomas Paine's Common Sense and exactly what you're talking about.

The other thing just to think about is what's on trial here is something that this is the winter in 1776 when Thomas Payne wrote Common Sense and then later the American Crisis, these pamphlets that really crystallized the American Revolution that gave us the system that we wanted to defend.

this is the winter in 1776 when thomas pain wrote common sense and then later the american crisis these pamphlets that really crystallized the american revolution they gave us the system that we wanted to fend he wrote that people say where's the king of america

thomas pain lived and collected taxes he was a tax collector about 15 miles from where i'm sitting now and there's a pub called the age of reason that he used to go to

And I was able to just explore the world through the internet and see what America is like and what the values of America were. So when all of that civil wars was happening, I was sitting at home reading Thomas Jefferson and The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine and Common Sense and stuff like that.

And sort of relatedly, the bestseller in colonial America was Thomas Paine's Common Sense and exactly what you're talking about. The colonial population was still largely illiterate, but that book, that pamphlet was read aloud in taverns and churches and city halls and squares across the country and was probably in terms of a kind of cultural zeitgeist or what we would call a kind of water cooler moment where everybody is talking about the same piece of media was probably as galvanizing and as momentous and as influential and as broad of a readership as any book since, you know, Harry Potter, Taylor Swift, whatever kind of contemporary examples we could think of.

I know about common sense. I know that this war is a conflict much bigger than our farm, our state. The cause of America is in great measure the cause of all mankind.

The pamphlet that stirred Martin's grandfather, Common Sense, would become the first American bestseller.

at the beginning of 1776 thomas paine releases common sense it sells an astonishing 120 000 copies in its first three months again there are only 2.5 million citizens of the colonies at the time non-slave non-native american citizens

an asylum for mankind, a quote from Common Sense.

You read Common Sense by Thomas Paine. You read Lincoln's speeches. You listen to Fannie Lou Hamer.

You read Common Sense by Thomas Paine.

Republicans also pushed legislation that would have banned books like Maya Angelou's book, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, or George Orwell's 1984, or F. Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby.

Republicans also pushed legislation that would have banned books like Maya Angelou's book, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings or George Orwell's 1984 or F. Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby.

Now I know why the cage bird sings

Now I know why the cage bird sings okay now I know why the cage bird sings she really said that I didn't see this whole video

Maya Angelou, who of course wrote, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings.

People are comparing it to I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, which I'm sure is just no big deal for you at all, right Tarana?

For years, you thought that the assault on you wasn't something that someone did to you or even, even something that happened to anyone else. And then one day you snuck Maya Angelou's I Know Where the Caged Bird Sings from your mother's collection.

When I read about what happened to a young Maya Angelou, I was able to read her as innocent in a way I didn't allow for myself.

excerpts from Maya Angelou's I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings read by the author used by permission of Penguin Random House Audio Publishing Group

the idea of sailing up and down the hills of San Francisco in a dark blue uniform with a money changer at my belt caught my fancy.

I would have the job. I would be a conductorette and sling a full money changer from my belt. I would.

Oh, this is notably explained in Maya Angelou's 'I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings'.

Maya Angelou. Can't have any of that.

The Alabama State Textbook Committee said that I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings encourages bitterness toward white people.

Maya Angelou.

Can't have any of that.

Yeah, the Alabama State Textbook Committee said that I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings encourages bitterness toward white people.

Maya Angelou. Can't have any of that. Yeah, the Alabama State Textbook Committee said that I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings encourages bitterness toward white people.

The Alabama State Textbook Committee said that I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings encourages bitterness toward white people.

She was somebody who I came across years before because of her amazing memoir, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, talking about her life growing up in a little town in South Arkansas called Stamps.

You're only free when you realize you belong no place. You belong every place. No place at all. The price is high. The reward is great.

I know why the caged bird sings. Written by Maya Angelou. Maya Angelou's a poet laureate. That part. She wrote porn.

But that's not what Maya Angelou's I Know Why the Caged Bird sings. It's pornography.

Maya Angelou... I started it... So I know Why the Cage Word Sings by Maya Angelou.

I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou.

They're based in D.C. They have I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, along with tons of other books that you can read about and learn about.

If you're not doing the Redheads or you're just looking for books, it's a great way to spend that coin. LoyaltyBookstores.com is where we got I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, our physical copies.

Because I read it on the Kindle, but I've started ordering physical copies of all of the books that we choose so that I can have a collection and also so I can take photos for Instagram. So, I ordered this one from Loyalty Books and it's great.

and now, um, I'm so excited to read our next book, which is I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou.

We announced that our book for next month is going to be I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou.

Those books included Maya Angelou's I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings.

Those books included Maya Angelou's I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings.

The update follows the banning of Angelou's autobiography, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, by Utah's Davis and Granite school districts.

Published in 1969, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings explores the racism Angelou experienced growing up in the South, as well as a sexual assault the author experienced as a child.