My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Hey, did you see it came out in Vietnamese? I think.

Oh, our book.

Yeah, I was like La Bona did? No.

Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered just came out in Vietnamese and the cover is really cool too.

It's creepy. It's cool. It's great.

Hi, have you read Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered? All my chapters. That's all it is. Footnote after footnote.

the whole story is in the book Stay sexy and don't get murdered coming out May something

Oh, my friend Doug Jones who's going to be DJing the night who I write about in the book. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered as being someone who likes to share weird obscure things like Mr. Show and Largo with made us a movie from the TV murder in Texas to 1981 TV movie about the murder that you'd covered.

Stay sexy and don't get worried. And we're actually writing a new one. We just got to announce it.

Oh, pick up our book sometime in May. We don't know when. We don't know.

Well, that's why we wrote Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered. We got real, real about it.

Sorry, we're already working on our next book. Cunty Divas.

My friend Doug Jones, who's going to be DJing the night who I write about in the book Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered as being someone who likes to share weird, obscure things like Mr. Show and Largo with made us a movie from the TV Murder in Texas, the 1981 TV movie about the murder that you'd covered.

First of all, can we just say thank you so much for the overwhelming feedback and support for this book.

You said it a million times, but it was hard to write. It was hard to release, like expose ourselves and we knew you'd be there for us, but I was definitely surprised at the amount of positive feedback and people saying that they loved it is so lovely.

Stay sexy. Don't get murdered featuring Paul Giamatti. That's now the full official title, by the way.

The book is great, but you really need to get the audio book and hear. Oh, she's just talking to everybody. And hear Georgia and Karen and Paul tell you the story. So much more emotional hearing it than reading it for me. Thank you.

And our publisher Forge Books, they are doing a give of giveaway for our listeners. It's a sweepstakes, actually.

Two lucky winners will receive ultra rare and ultra rare SSDGM lunchbox, a brand new copy of our paperback, which is available May 11th and other cool merch stuff inside of that.

We wrote another book.

There's a paperback version of Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered that's coming out on May 11th of this year, which is basically a month away.

And it and it is my birthday, which is, you know, one of the pluses of being in this in the biz.

There are going to be two sneak peek bonus chapters in the back of the paperback from the new book that is coming out.

It's more stories from our lives, but it is in the theme of responding to your frickin letters, the most the beautiful letters you have sent us for years that we have saved because we loved them when we were pitching new ideas. It just came organically that what if we finally fucking respond to these?

So I love this book. I have to admit, I'm a slow reader and I tore through this book.

I still can't come to terms with the fact that this has all happened, that we wrote a book and finished it.

It was really amazing reading this and being like, wow, I am, you're going to learn things about these two that you haven't heard on the podcast.

And you know, it was the chance that we both had with our secret want to write a book.

And nothing personal. No, no, no. But instead we were like, here's everything inside of me that I'm ashamed of.

And so our SSGGM, the 'Stay Sexy & Don't Get Murdered', the book that came out in hardback is now being released soft bound.

On May 11th, which is my birthday this year.

So you can preorder it, which is really great. If you're if you're going to buy it, please preorder it.

It's the same like rate, review, subscribe on podcast. It's preorder for books.

And it's and it's so it's extra content than in the hard version. The flacid version has extra content.

May 28th, Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered, the book. We did that. Talk about saying what we want and then only realizing afterwards that a whole bunch of people are going to read it.

Our fucking book comes out in a week.

Six days, you're going to be able to buy Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered. The dual memoir by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardster.

And the audio book comes out the same day so you can keep listening to our fucking voices.

Yes, we read it ourselves.

Paul Giamatti makes a fucking cameo.

Paul Giamatti is doing is helping us read our audio book here and there.

Our book's in Korean.

Our book's in Korean.

We should post that so people can see.

They're posted on Instagram and the translation for Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered and then the tagline is, Be a Selfish Bitch, Realistic Fucking Advice from Your Cool Sisters.

the paperback book is coming out next year on my birthday. Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

Our book is coming on paperback paperback. Why isn't it called a paperback?

it was about how the paperback book is coming out next year on my birthday. Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

It's in the book, in one of my stories, I should have been killed in it, but she would never go alone on shoots.

So our paperback is paperback of Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered is coming out in May and I think you can preorder it now, which I guess it's so far away. I don't understand books.

It's on my birthday, May 11th, 2021. Happy fucking birthday. And it's going to have bonus content in it.

So our paperback is paperback of Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered is coming out in May and I think you can pre-order it now, which I guess it's so far away.

it's on my birthday, May 11th, 2021.

And it's going to have bonus content in it.

We wrote a book called Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered.

It's being written as a... or like... It was a dual memoir.

Which I think is might be the first of its kind.

Go to Audible or anywhere that you listen to your audio books. And you can pre-order it.

Pre-order that shit and then get ready for us to read you a book.

the whole story is in the book Stay sexy and don't get murdered coming out May something

Well, that's why we wrote Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered. We got real, real about it.

My friend Doug Jones, who's going to be DJing the night who I write about in the book Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered as being someone who likes to share weird, obscure things like Mr. Show and Largo with made us a movie from the TV Murder in Texas, the 1981 TV movie about the murder that you'd covered.

First of all, can we just say thank you so much for the overwhelming feedback and support for this book.

You said it a million times, but it was hard to write. It was hard to release, like expose ourselves and we knew you'd be there for us, but I was definitely surprised at the amount of positive feedback and people saying that they loved it is so lovely.

Stay sexy. Don't get murdered featuring Paul Giamatti. That's now the full official title, by the way.

The book is great, but you really need to get the audio book and hear. Oh, she's just talking to everybody. And hear Georgia and Karen and Paul tell you the story. So much more emotional hearing it than reading it for me.

I love this book. I have to admit, I'm a slow reader and I tore through this book.

I love the book so much.

For those of you, I don't want to spoil the book, but Karen dies halfway through. She's been a ghost all along.

It's incredibly written and knowing that, yeah. Well, you can hit someone with it.

All I ask is that they buy the book, Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered.

May 28th, Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered, the book. We did that.

Talk about saying what we want and then only realizing afterwards that a whole bunch of people are going to read it.

Our fucking book comes out in a week.

Six days, you're going to be able to buy Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered. The dual memoir by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardster.

And the audio book comes out the same day so you can keep listening to our fucking voices.

Paul Giamatti makes a fucking cameo.

The whole thing is nuts.

the forthcoming book, Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered, the audiobook

It's in the book, in one of my stories, I should have been killed in it, but she would never go alone on shoots.

She's in the book, our book. And we had just been talking about how I could say what I could say in our acknowledgements if I could use her last name.

We wrote a book called Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered.

It's being written as a...

Or like...It was a dual memoir.

Dual memoir. Which I think is might be the first of its kind.

We will be reading our own audio book.

You can read about it in stay sexy and don't get murdered. A new shared. What is it called? It's called a shared memoir.

Coming out June of 2019.

May of 2019.

It's called Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered.

It's essentially like a memoir of all the fucked up stories we've lightly told you about on the podcast before.

We're like, hey, remember that one time you lit the bed on fire and that one time I went to rehab and like, you know, all these like really, really personal fucking stories intersplice with true crime things that are related to it that we're interested in.

So legendary.

I just recently become acquainted with her books remember the black and white photos that were always in the middle turn to those immediately first I wouldn't know what was going on in the story

that's how I saw that picture in the John Wayne Gacy book that my cousin Marty had that haunted me forever and landed me here on the podcast my favorite murder

She points out that Rita Curran resembles Ted Bundy's girlfriend, Diane Edwards, as do many of his victims.

I enjoyed some me time with a cup of coffee and a few chapters of The Stranger Beside Me.

I had an incredible, huge honor this year that I just want to mention the re-release of the book, The Stranger Beside Me by Anne Rule.

I wrote the foreword to it.

And I'm really proud of that.

if you want to get a copy of the new Stranger Beside Me re-release.

Also that book, if you haven't read it, truly is a page turner unlike any other. It really is a beautiful, it just stands the test of time. It's such a beautiful book.

Right now I'm reading a Ted Bundy book that I've never read before that is so detailed and so good.

And then you read another account and you're like, oh, I only know Ann rules account.

So Ann rules in there. These are the guys that interviewed him once he was in jail.

But it's not like that. Is it like a study of a sociopath kind of a thing or psychopath?

Well, it's just this story kind of really detailed so far. I'm only half. I just began. But it's it really is just like almost like month by month how it all went down and just the way like the different things that went on.

I'm reading A Stranger Beside Me or The Stranger Beside Me by Ann Rule right now.

Don't read The Stranger Beside Me. I am having nightmares.

The most disturbing book about a person who. Is the most disturbing person.

She's so mad at Anne Rule for falling for Ted Bundy's act.

But I was like, but that's how good he was. That's how evil it is and whatever.

I think it's because he was able to fool Anne fucking Ruel.

My dad didn't find out the truth until Ann Rule published her book and my mom read it.

I'm reading A Stranger Beside Me or The Stranger Beside Me by Ann Rule right now.

Don't read The Stranger Beside Me.

I am having nightmares. I had a fucking I had a job interview with Ted Bundy the other night.

It's the most disturbing book about a person who is the most disturbing person.

But Anne Rule had all... Rules! She rules. But she also had every tool in the book to look at him and go, something's not right. And she didn't sense it.

After a 20 year hiatus, I am again reading Stranger Beside Me.

I keep saying, stop reading this, Georgia. Stop reading this, Georgia. And I can't put it down. It's so good. It's so good. And it's also so dated. And Anne Rule, like, she should never have died because she just needs to keep updating this book.

Oh, I just bought a stranger beside me.

I'm reading 'A Stranger Beside Me' or 'The Stranger Beside Me' by Ann Rule right now.

Don't read 'The Stranger Beside Me'. I am having nightmares.

The most disturbing book about a person who...is the most disturbing person.

She's so mad at Anne Rule for falling for Ted Bundy's act.

But I was like, but that's how good he was. That's how evil it is and whatever.

I'm reading A Stranger Beside Me or The Stranger Beside Me by Ann Rule right now.

Don't read The Stranger Beside Me.

I am having nightmares. I had a fucking I had a job interview with Ted Bundy the other night.

It's the most disturbing book about a person who is the most disturbing person.

But Anne Rule had all... Rules! She rules. But she also had every tool in the book to look at him and go, something's not right. And she didn't sense it.

Oh, I just bought a stranger beside me.

She churned it out for years and years. God bless her soul. And her story I wish I hear if this if I had all the time in the world and I could really fucking here's what I would do. I would now clear the stage. I would put on an Anne Rule costume and I would do a one woman show called 'The Stranger Beside Me'.

So if you don't know Anne Rule was a crime writer who in the 70s had been a cop and had become like a crime beat reporter among other things. I think she still worked in the police department also in some other ways. But she also volunteered as a suicide prevention hotline. And that is where she met the amazing Mr. Ted Bundy.

She worked side by side with him on the night shift at a suicide hotline. And she he was a close friend and she used to like to say if she was 10 years younger or her daughters were 15 years older. She thought he was the perfect man.

When I was reading 'A Stranger Beside Me', this I couldn't stop reading this chapter over and over because it's so fucking fucked up.

She like talks about it where she calls and says this is crazy and I mean it's probably not him but I right the thing is that he does have a gold Volkswagen.

This whole story is, is very parallel to VC Andrews novel, My Sweet Audrina.

I was listening to the audio book on the plane laughing out loud and writing down phrases. It's just getting dirtier and weirder as it goes.

The last time, which was very early in the first year, and we tried to get everyone to read V.C. Andrews, My Sweet Audrina...

V.C. Andrews is a legend. She ruled the 80s. It was an unreadably bad book. It was just strangely dirty. Strange. Yeah. A lot of incest themes, not even the incest. The whole thing was incest. Yeah. It wasn't a suggestion. It was happening on the page.

So I'm now in the part where she meets, um, no, I don't have his name written here. Boring old Audrina?

She goes into the forest, which is a forest that's not really a forest. It's a forest. It's a forest.

And in the house is a boy. I think his name is Auden.

And then his mother lives there too. And she hides behind a tree and watches him rake the yard. And in the book it's talking about like how he has a hot ass and shit. He's 12 years old.

Oh, and also the description of when Vera gets spanked by daddy. Oh yeah. And it's down to like her ass burning through her thin underwear.

I read a couple of pages and I was like, well, this is kind of boring, right?

Well, yeah, I forgot about the fact that it is an incredibly problematic and triggering book for many people.

The phrase the first and best Audrina... that's creepy.

It is repeated so many times.

I'm going to keep on reading My Sweet Audrina. I'm sorry.

I read a couple pages and I was like, well, this is kind of boring.

I accidentally spoiled it and read what happens. And I'm like, oh, I don't want to read this.

I forgot about the fact that it is an incredibly problematic and triggering book for many people.

The phrase, the first and best Audrina. Right. That's creepy as fuck.

I got me, I got a hardback copy with a big plastic cover that I was using as the bookmark that every night I would fall asleep while I was reading it because it's the same roughly the same 11 sentences over and over again for 200 pages.

We read so much V.C. Andrews when I was like 12. It should have been taken away from us. It should have been banned. Listen, I'm not for banning books. No, not really. But V.C. Andrews had some shit going on.

Did you ever read My Sweet Audrina? Yes. Okay. I obsessed on that concept. It was so good. What if my parents have brainwashed me and I don't remember my actual childhood? Like that whole concept was unbelievable.

I'm pretty sure that's the one where at one point, the adoptive mother, somebody scrubs somebody else with bleach in a bathtub. Fun. Do you remember that? No. Like you must get clean. You're not clean.

Let's do that one or Flowers in the Attic. Let's start with which we start with. I kind of want to do My Sweet Audrina just because it's a little bit

So we're going to we're all starting My Sweet Audrina this Friday. Yeah, because so the next week is Thanksgiving. So we're putting a live episode up. And so let's meet back here in a week, in two weeks. In two weeks at the beginning of December.

It has to be a used like paperback copy. It has to be a haunted copy. Yes. That's haunted with the tears of a fucking girl from the 80s who's like, I hope I get kidnapped by the hot.

Let's do that one or Flowers in the Attic. Let's start with which we start with.

I kind of want to do My Sweet Audrina just because it's a little bit like I just rewatched the they did the Flowers in the Attic made for TV movie on Lifetime.

So we're going to we're all starting My Sweet Ardrina this Friday.

It has to be a used like paperback copy. It has to be a haunted copy.

If it's not that one, it's a different. Let's do that one or Flowers in the Attic.

So this girl named Mandy Lee took pages from My Sweet Audrina and made us gorgeous jewelry out of it.

And like she does, the quilled jewelry is like her thing and she does a ton of Harry Potter book pages with it so.

And then there would just be a strip of like my sister Vera said. It was like these lines from that book.

So I was listening to it on the plane and I just would like to read a couple.

So I'm now in the part where she meets, um, no, I don't have his name written here. Boring old Audrina?

She goes into the forest, which is a forest that's not really a forest. It's a forest. It's a forest.

And in the house is a boy. I think his name is Auden. And then his mother lives there too.

And it's down to like her ass burning through her thin underwear. Like it gets into a detail where I'm like, no, this is, I think we need to talk to VC Andrews.

I read a couple pages and I was like, well, this is kind of boring, right? And then I read I accidentally spoiled it and read what happens and I'm like, oh, I don't want to read this.

Well, yeah, I forgot about the fact that it is an incredibly problematic and triggering book for many people. And it is from a time in the 80s where everybody pretended things like that didn't happen in real life.

The phrase the first and best Audrina. Right. That's creepy. If you pulled that phrase out of the book, the book would only be 112 pages long. It is repeated so many times.

I've just really, really been enjoying the photos people are posting of their copy because no one has a new copy.

I'm going to keep on reading My Sweet Audrina. I'm sorry. And I'm going to keep on talking about My Sweet Audrina.

I read a couple pages and I was like, well, this is kind of boring.

Well, yeah, I forgot about the fact that it is an incredibly problematic and triggering book for many people.

The phrase, the first and best Audrina...That's creepy as fuck.

If you pulled that phrase out of the book, the book would only be 112 pages long.

So I would, it would literally drop out of my hand and I would be asleep with the light on and I would wake up at three in the morning like what the fuck?

Did you ever read My Sweet Audrina?

Okay. I obsessed on that concept. It was so good.

I'm pretty sure that's the one where at one point, the adoptive mother, somebody scrubs somebody else with bleach in a bathtub.

I kind of want to do My Sweet Audrina just because it's a little bit like I just rewatched the they did the Flowers in the Attic made for TV movie on Lifetime.

Let's all read My Sweet Audrina. Like, do you want to go pick up copies tomorrow?

No, let's do it. If it's not that one, it's a different. Let's do that one or Flowers in the Attic. Let's start with which we start with. I kind of want to do My Sweet Audrina just because it's a little bit like I just rewatched the they did the Flowers in the Attic made for TV movie on Lifetime.

Let's all read My Sweet Ardrina. Like, do you want to go pick up copies tomorrow?

It has to be a used like paperback copy. It has to be a haunted copy.

I don't remember most of My Sweet Audrina, but it gives me chills.

What book do you think it was? Oh, I bet it was V.C. Andrews. Fucking My Sweet Audrina.

Do you want to do My Sweet Audrina? I don't remember most of My Sweet Audrina, but it gave me chills.

What is that book that I can't think of? The Da Vinci Code. Thank you, Stephen.

You know what you're thinking of that you're right. But you're thinking of my favorite book ever written, The Da Vinci Code, which is Mary Magdalene that Mary Magdalene was Jesus's wife and that there that the that the arc of the covenant.

Not the arc of the covenant. The Noah's Ark. Holy Grail. Sorry. Yeah. The Holy Grail is actually Jesus's child. Oh, that's that. That it's a symbol. OK, so basically there's a there's a bloodline of Jesus's family on Earth.

And you said Da Vinci Code. I said The Da Vinci Code.

Anyone who has right now if in your mind piece of trivia you have my favorite book is The Da Vinci Code. Sorry Dan Brown we're not doing that today.

I almost said, um, The Da Vinci Code simply because Dan Brown put so much shit into that.

Like there's so many things. There's like different parts. I'm like, you're reading a bunch of, I've never read it, but a bunch of books.

He just, he just went and he was like, what is the densest plot I can put into this book?

What is that book that I can't think of? The Da Vinci Code. Thank you, Stephen.

She there's a book never mind. She I know I'm not gonna remember it. It's called the dictionary What's that book DaVinci Code That's it. That's there it is

And you said Da Vinci Code. I said The Da Vinci Code.

Sorry Dan Brown we're not doing that today.

I almost said, um, The Da Vinci Code simply because Dan Brown put so much shit into that.

Like there's so many things. There's like different parts. I'm like, you're reading a bunch of, I've never read it, but a bunch of books.

He just, he just went and he was like, what is the densest plot I can put into this book?

What is that book that I can't think of?

The Da Vinci Code.

She there's a book never mind. She I know I'm not gonna remember it. It's called the dictionary What's that book DaVinci Code That's it. That's there it is she's charged with the murders and of Mary Mickelson who was 60 Christina Mickelson who was 87 and Angelina Thompson who was 84

Dan Brown is the international bestselling author of The Da Vinci Code. And he absolutely did not kill Harvey.

What's that book? Da Vinci Code. That's it.

I also think I recommended Michelle McNamara's book.

If you've read, I'll Be Gone in the Dark, you know like that's just no big deal to people.

We have to talk about I'll Be Gone in the Dark, the TV show.

And we're working on that. Really because I've been telling everyone across the globe...

Going through her notes while we were putting the book together and finding that coda finding the letter to the old man it was amazing.

My jaw dropped when I first saw that and the way that she wrote it and it really did play out exactly how she said it.

That was one of the first things I thought about when I heard the news I was like I wonder if it was just like that and it turns out it was.

But finding that and then I thought this is how the book is going to end if we didn't catch him.

And then I put in my headphones, which I always do to fall asleep. I've been listening to, I needed something nice and light lately because I've been listening to fucking All Be Gone in the Dark at night and it's been scaring the shit out of me.

And it was awesome. Because it's a different story now. I was not freaking out and I was not scared. My heart was fucking happy as I listened to it and fell asleep.

That point, that part in fucking I'll Be Gone in the Dark is chilling.

Go listen to, there's a three-part podcast called I'll Be Gone in the Dark that just explains with all the players how this book came to be.

It's really well done. It's a really quick listen if you just knew how to catch up. Get all the info.

And then to read this book, just for me, the level of writing in this book is so incredibly impressive.

And it's like you when I read true crime, you kind of expect a certain tone. It's mostly factual informational, you know, with a little bit of like color.

Michelle, this book reads to me like fine literature. And I'm just so impressed. I'm so proud of her. It's such an exciting thing that this book exists right now.

It was so insanely accurate where I think part of it, it seems to me, was the research was her passion.

It's such an amazing book and it does exist it's not the thing she wanted to get done that's kind of incredible too yeah it's amazing

Michelle is number one on the nonfiction list.

And I'll Be Gone in the Dark, which I've been listening to obsessively.

So it won't be over. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's not over. No, I know. It's not. It's correct. It's not over. You know, what's funny is I so Pat Noswalt, who is Michelle's husband, sent us copies of the book so that we could have it because he knows.

And it's also cool that it's out there and it's going to be very very interesting to see and that her name will forever be you know when they do catch this guy her name will because they're going to there's no way it's not going to happen. Her name will always be connected to this case that obsessed her.

Because it's just and then the obsession and I kind of it reminded me a lot of that obsession that I used to have at a desk job when I would just sit and read blogs like that and stories like that which weren't written in that way.

One thing that really disturbed her was she would read police reports about them going to look at suspects and it was like Rang suspects doorbell no answer and they didn't follow up

And we were there, because it was for Michelle's book, you know, Paul would say that he felt that Michelle was his partner.

Going through her notes while we were putting the book together and finding that coda finding the letter to the old man it was amazing.

It'll end there and then we'll tack something else on the end.

Been listening to fucking Douglas Adams lately. But I fucking put on All Be Gone in the fucking Dark in my headphones and fell asleep to it.

That point, that part in fucking I'll Be Gone in the Dark is chilling.

Go listen to, there's a three-part podcast called I'll Be Gone in the Dark that just explains with all the players how this book came to be.

And one of them is that they knew that this needed a fucking better name. Because it needed to reflect that he fucking terrorized the entire state in all these counties.

It's really well done. It's a really quick listen if you just knew how to catch up. Get all the info.

And then to read this book, just for me, the level of writing in this book is so incredibly impressive.

Michelle, this book reads to me like fine literature. And I'm just so impressed. I'm so proud of her.

It's such an exciting thing that this book exists right now.

I think that these us as true crime and, you know, obsessives understand just wanting to know more and know more.

And it does exist it's not the thing she wanted to get done that's kind of incredible too yeah it's amazing

Michelle McNamara's book came out. Yeah. And I'll Be Gone in the Dark, which I've been listening to obsessively.

Pat Noswalt, who is Michelle's husband, sent us copies of the book so that we could have it because he knows.

Michelle is number one on the nonfiction list.

So it's just and then the obsession and I kind of it reminded me a lot of that obsession that I used to have at a desk job when I would just sit and read blogs like that and stories like that which weren't written in that way.

Because it's just and then the obsession and I kind of it reminded me a lot of that obsession that I used to have at a desk job when I would just sit and read blogs like that and stories like that which weren't written in that way. Then they were kind of just like stories you had to kind of put together based on you know, read it and stuff like that.

We were both reading Brene Brown's Staring Greatly when we started this podcast.

I think Brene Brown owes us royalties. Yep. And we're going to need an honorary doctorate. That's right. And we're going to want our own Ted Talk and we're gonna, and we're gonna, and I want to love it.

Well, and also if they've never done the same, I mean this is straight out of Daring Greatly by Brene Brown, but if they've never done the same, their opinion can't count because they don't know what it means.

I don't really usually make resolutions but I am reading Daring Greatly again for the hundredth time.

Daring Greatly by Brene Brown, a book recommendation we've made many times on the show.

of course, please read Brene Brown's Daring Greatly as I don't think Karen and I would, this wouldn't exist without her.

I'm also reading fucking Daring Greatly again.

I think Brene Brown owes us royalties.

Well, and also if they've never done the same, I mean this is straight out of Daring Greatly by Brene Brown, but if they've never done the same, their opinion can't count because they don't know what it means.

I don't really usually make resolutions but I am reading Daring Greatly again for the hundredth time.

Daring Greatly by Brene Brown, a book recommendation we've made many times on the show.

of course, please read Brene Brown's Daring Greatly as I don't think Karen and I would, this wouldn't exist without her.

I'm also reading fucking Daring Greatly again.

My grandma even made me watch Pet Sematary and It to quote unquote prep me for our King encounters.

Apparently my dad had wrItten Mr. King a letter in 1981 personally invIting him to the Danvers stores grand opening in the coming months.

Unfortunately, in the letter he regrets to inform my dad that he will be on vacation wIth his family during the weekend of the event.

So he'd be unable to attend.

Like a true legend, he wished my dad well and stated that he would keep my dad's store in mind if he decided to go on a book tour for the release of any of his upcoming novels.

What about It? I feel like It's similar, but It's so much scarier.

They basically defeat the monster by kind of gang raping the girl.

Why am I forgetting all of this?

And I'm like, I don't know if this is the best thing for me to be thinking.

There are other authors.

There's great books out today for kids.

I mean, and I remember even when I was reading It, which I think I read, that didn't come out until like the late 80s.

I was in high school.

But even then I was like, this is a lIttle fucking weird.

I don't know what's going on here.

They're what? They're all fucking the girl?

Stephen King grew up in Durham, the town next to my town, although he now has a residence up in Bangor. It's said that the town influenced the settings for The Body, aka Stand By Me and It.

He passed his copies of Stephen King to me as soon as he finished them.

But I'm just listening to a Stephen King book right now so I can't and I haven't finished It so I don't know if It's good or not yet that I want to recommend It.

Stephen King grew up in Durham, the town next to my town, although he now has a residence up in Bangor. It's said that the town influenced the settings for The Body, aka Stand By Me and It.

Like when I read 'The Stand', I was in 'The Stand'. The world was ending because of the flu.

He passed his copies of Stephen King to me as soon as he finished them.

So the book that I have since recommended a million times in this podcast called No Stone Unturned by Steve Jackson talks extensively about this case because it's a book about necrosearch and what a huge part of solving this case and finding evidence they were for this story.

And those cases are also talked about in No Stone Unturned.

It's actually funny because so I'm I'm listening to this book on tape or this audio book that I've been listening to forever called No Stone Unturned about Necro Search, who uncovers clandestine graves.

Necrosearch is involved in the search as well and there's a chapter in the book that I love um no stone done No Stone Unturned about the Romanovs and the search for them it's really cool

It's actually funny because so I'm I'm listening to this book on tape or this audio book that I've been listening to forever called No Stone Unturned about Necro Search, who uncovers clandestine graves.

It's called No Stone Unturned. It's about necro search I think I talked about it way in the beginning of the podcast, but it's necro search Who is that really awesome organization that finds clandestine Graves there's all these different kinds of people in it who are Science II and otherwise and they're called the experts and They're called the pig people because they started burying pigs to See how decomposition worked and how it made graves look and how You could see how long a body was buried based on the foliage and based On the bugs and decomposition.

No Stone Unturned listen to it. It's best.

Necrosearch is involved in the search as well and there's a chapter in the book that I love um no stone done No Stone Unturned about the Romanovs and the search for them it's really cool

It's called No Stone Unturned. It's about necro search I think I talked about it way in the beginning of the podcast, but it's necro search who is that really awesome organization that finds clandestine Graves there's all these different kinds of people in it who are Science II and otherwise and they're called the experts and They're called the pig people because they started burying pigs to See how decomposition worked and how it made graves look and how You could see how long a body was buried based on the foliage and based On the bugs and decomposition.

No Stone Unturned listen to it. It's best.

I am listening to a book called "No Stone Unturned".

It's the true story of the world's premier forensic investigators.

It's a book about how the how NecroSearch came to be.

And no one is allowed to address anyone as other than their first name. They can't say doctor or so. No one's a no elitism.

It's a rad book if you're really into forensic science and all these fields and how, you know, just forensic detectives. It's a good fucking book.

I am listening to a book called No Stone Unturned. It's the true story of the world's premier forensic investigators.

It's a book about how the how NecroSearch came to be, which started with them burying pigs to study decomposition and what happened to bodies.

And no one is allowed to address anyone as other than their first name. They can't say doctor or so. No one's a no elitism.

It's a rad book if you're really into forensic science and all these fields and how, you know, just forensic detectives. It's a good fucking book.

It's on Audible. I highly recommend it.

But oh my God, some of the phrases that those, that they use in that book, get my sweet Adrena if anyone's reading along.

I don't know if anybody noticed this at one point near the, near the beginning of the book, I think she's describing Vera, the cousin. And she says clumsily clumbering down the hall. Clumbering is not a word, is it?

So it's called volunteers of Vacaville or the blind project. Um, they were recorded thousands of books, bestsellers, textbooks, mysteries, science fiction, Western, Western children's books and cookbooks onto tape cassettes from 1977 to 87 Kemper had spent over 5,000 hours in the recording booth and had more than 4 million feet of tape and several hundred books to his credit, including, and this is the best one flowers in the fucking addict addict addict addict flowers in the addictions flowers in the addicts.

Oh, can you imagine flowers in the attic as that guy in that could kind of nerdy voice like that.

I kind of want to do My Sweet Audrina just because it's a little bit like I just rewatched the they did the Flowers in the Attic made for TV movie on Lifetime.

Flowers in the fucking attic.

Oh, can you imagine flowers in the attic as that guy in that kind of nerdy voice like that?

You read the Flowers in the Attic series. You know how fucking hot that can be.

So it's called volunteers of Vacaville or the blind project. Um, they were recorded thousands of books, bestsellers, textbooks, mysteries, science fiction, Western, Western children's books and cookbooks onto tape cassettes from 1977 to 87 Kemper had spent over 5,000 hours in the recording booth and had more than 4 million feet of tape and several hundred books to his credit, including, and this is the best one flowers in the fucking addict addict addict addict flowers in the addictions flowers in the addicts.

Oh, can you imagine flowers in the attic as that guy in that could kind of nerdy voice like that.

Oh my God. Did you watch it, Stephen? Did Malz do an episode?

Oh, Malz. Do you want to do it too?

Let's do that one or Flowers in the Attic. Let's start with which we start with.

Flowers in the fucking attic.

there's a V.C. Andrews book. Flowers in the Attic? No. It's a problematic book that they talked about and they said it was controversial.

Let's do Flowers in the Attic. It's a dark, gothic novel that they've both read and loved.

I love that book; it's the one about the creepy attic and the tragic family.

For someone who loves this book so much, I fuck it up a lot.

But that book is by the author Bill James and his daughter, Rachel McCarthy James.

And if you are looking for a true crime book that is going to be factually dense and yet absolutely horrifying as a story where you think, oh, my God, how do I never know about this? Read The Man from the Train.

I will keep on recommending it until year 28 of this podcast.

OK, I have another book recommendation, but I took this one from our friend of the family, Rachel McCarthy James, who is the co-author of my favorite, favorite book, The Man from the Train.

If you haven't read The Man from the Train and you like true crime, it is. Stop yelling at my mind blowing. I just want to reread it.

I have recommended this book now so many times it's called The Man from the Train it's um by bill james and he's uh yeah he's an analyst he writes a lot about baseball but he wrote this book and um uh so he basically he has this theory there have been axe murders of families in homes around the united states from 1898 through 1912 and in so i will now list the similarities oh god oh god of The Man from the Trains mo and to the villisca axe murders i'm buying this book immediately it's such a good book i never listened to you before but no i see

it's called The Man from the Train it links it all up and that is the unbelievable and still unsolved villisca axe murder story amazing great fucking job thank you kindly

To a horrible and mysterious, this makes me want to point back to once again one of my favorite true crime books of all time, The Man from the Train, which is unbelievable.

And it has that thing where the idea that someone comes into a small town where people are just the assumption of safety because they're far away from people, they're away from the big city or whatever and decimates a family and then just walks away and nothing ever happens from that is just crazy.

I feel like back then it was just so easy to just blend in and be a nameless, faceless person going through town.

Yeah, that's crazy. And you could hop on trains again.

Read The Man from the Train if you're that. So good.

If you haven't read the man on a train and you're looking for quarantine entertainment, I know I've recommended it a hundred times, but it is a. I still haven't read it.

That book's amazing.

It's called The Man from the Train by a man who's normally a baseball writer named Bill James, but he also wrote the book popular crime.

So he's linking the Velasca acts murders and a bunch of other really grisly murders. It's one guy that used to ride the train and it's just incredible.

They did so much research.

It's one of those really satisfying, like if you know about this crime and this crime and this crime, he's like, it's all one guy.

I have recommended this book now so many times it's called The Man from the Train it's um by Bill James and he's uh yeah he's an analyst he writes a lot about baseball but he wrote this book and um uh so he basically he has this theory there have been axe murders of families in homes around the united states from 1898 through 1912 and in so i will now list the similarities oh god oh god of The Man from the Trains mo and to the villisca axe murders i'm buying this book immediately it's such a good book i never listened to you before but no i see

it's called The Man from the Train it links it all up and that is the unbelievable and still unsolved villisca axe murder story amazing great fucking job thank you kindly

It's called The Man from the Train by a man who's normally a baseball writer named Bill James, but he also wrote the book popular crime.

So he's linking the Velasca acts murders and a bunch of other really grisly murders. It's one guy that used to ride the train and it's just incredible.

They did so much research.

And also the way he writes, like sometimes I feel like when I read true crime books, it's very like, uh, it gets very prosy and like kind of like the very overly descriptive this guy. It's like, he's just talking to you or he was like, well, we'll talk about that later.

It's really cool narrative and then it's just really clear. And it's one of those really satisfying, like if you know about this crime and this crime and this crime, he's like, it's all one guy.

If you haven't read the book, 'Bad Blood' by John Carreyrou, you have to.

It's like a podcast by just one person that actually did some work.

The book, Bad Blood, you told us all to read, was really interesting.

My ears immediately perked up when Karen started describing Bad Blood on episode 130.

It's called Bad Blood Secrets and Lies in the Silicon Valley Startup and I don't want to tell you too much about it but basically when all the dot coms that you know the startup boom happened and uh it's this it begins around 2007 and it's a 22 year old um Stanford dropout who begins her own tech company and it's she's gonna start a new type of blood testing system where instead of using hypodermic needles which she claims to be scared of um she's gonna start a finger a finger stick system where you only need a drop of blood and then they can diagnose diseases and tell you what's wrong with you and all this stuff and she basically takes that concept gets all this financial backing and eventually this company gets evaluated at being worth 400 billion dollars and she is on the covers of all the magazines and all this stuff well the truth of it the whole fucking thing is a scam I love it she doesn't she doesn't have any medical experience she doesn't have any science experience she doesn't know anything about this thing she's she is such a big um uh you know that she's starting a fucking startup for she just wants the idea of it to happen so all the scientists over the years that start to come and work for her and to try to build this thing are like yeah this it doesn't exist already because it can't exist right you need more blood than that to test for things um and she's like basically is like make it happen she gets all these people powerful people on the board I picture her as Janice from the Muppets she's she's like evil Janice from the Muppets but there's parts of this book it's this thing of how if you have a bunch of money and you're a liar you like and you're a sociopath yeah you can kind of do anything you want because she keeps on convincing people to back her give her money and support her wall scientists and medical experts go this isn't real and the her board and all these people go you're fired and they just keep getting rid of the naysayers yeah yeah and until it's a great way to live your life is just get rid of any people who like try to help you yeah look around your life if you're the kind of person that can't be contradicted or criticized or told anything negative about yourself and because of that you cut people out of your life you're going to have humongous problems you have to have those voices and whether whether it's in your personal life or starting a a a business where people's lives are on the line she had a humongous deal with Safeway she had a huge deal with Walgreens oh my god they were gonna set up like these wellness centers in Walgreens where you could go in get your finger pricked and in four hours they'd tell you if you had any disease at all wow that was like the selling point and she was like yep we can make it happen and all the scientists are like it doesn't it's not real what's it called Bad Blood it's called Bad Blood and it's one of the best books i've listened to and in a really long time i love it yeah um okay cool wait did i just tell the whole fucking book sorry i didn't mean to no i didn't mean to go on that long i just loved it

My friend Dori Schafrir, she just wrote her first novel. It came out recently. It's getting fucking rave reviews. It's called Startup and I just bought it.

The book, Bad Blood, you told us all to read, was really interesting.

My ears immediately perked up when Karen started describing Bad Blood on episode 130.

And everyone thought that Theranos would revolutionize blood testing.

It's called Bad Blood Secrets and Lies in the Silicon Valley Startup and I don't want to tell you too much about it but basically when all the dot coms that you know the startup boom happened and uh it's this it begins around 2007 and it's a 22 year old um Stanford dropout who begins her own tech company and it's she's gonna start a new type of blood testing system where instead of using hypodermic needles which she claims to be scared of um she's gonna start a finger a finger stick system where you only need a drop of blood and then they can diagnose diseases and tell you what's wrong with you and all this stuff and she basically takes that concept gets all this financial backing and eventually this company gets evaluated at being worth 400 billion dollars and she is on the covers of all the magazines and all this stuff well the truth of it the whole fucking thing is a scam I love it she doesn't she doesn't have any medical experience she doesn't have any science experience she doesn't know anything about this thing she's she is such a big um uh you know that she's starting a fucking startup for she just wants the idea of it to happen so all the scientists over the years that start to come and work for her and to try to build this thing are like yeah this it doesn't exist already because it can't exist right you need more blood than that to test for things um and she's like basically is like make it happen she gets all these people powerful people on the board I picture her as Janice from the Muppets she's she's like evil Janice from the Muppets but there's parts of this book it's this thing of how if you have a bunch of money and you're a liar you like and you're a sociopath yeah you can kind of do anything you want because she keeps on convincing people to back her give her money and support her wall scientists and medical experts go this isn't real and the her board and all these people go you're fired and they just keep getting rid of the naysayers yeah yeah and until it's a great way to live your life is just get rid of any people who like try to help you yeah look around your life if you're the kind of person that can't be contradicted or criticized or told anything negative about yourself and because of that you cut people out of your life you're going to have humongous problems you have to have those voices and whether whether it's in your personal life or starting a a a business where people's lives are on the line she had a humongous deal with Safeway she had a huge deal with Walgreens oh my god they were gonna set up like these wellness centers in Walgreens where you could go in get your finger pricked and in four hours they'd tell you if you had any disease at all wow that was like the selling point and she was like yep we can make it happen and all the scientists are like it doesn't it's not real what's it called Bad Blood it's called Bad Blood and it's one of the best books i've listened to and in a really long time i love it yeah um okay cool wait did i just tell the whole fucking book sorry i didn't mean to no i didn't mean to go on that long i just loved it

My friend Dori Schafrir, she just wrote her first novel. It came out recently. It's getting fucking rave reviews. It's called Startup and I just bought it.

I have heard such stories at my book signings, right? Where's my Noah or where's my John from Dear John? And at the same time, in the course of my career, I've had seven marriage proposals in lines to sign my book, you know?

Where's my Noah or where's my John from Dear John?

Nicholas Sparks is here.

I have heard such stories at my book signings, right? Where's my Noah or where's my John from Dear John?

I have heard such stories at my book signings, right? Where's my Noah or where's my John from Dear John?

This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Nicholas Sparks is here. I would imagine that you've gotten a lot of feedback about setting a standard of love and romance that a lot of men probably can't measure up to.

I have heard such stories at my book signings, right? Where's my Noah? Where's my John from Dear John?

Where's my John from Dear John?

I have heard such stories at my book signings, right? Where's my Noah or where's my John from Dear John?

We're real. We're real. Oh, and we're going to get pneumonia. Was it? No, that's the secret garden. No, didn't the little boy in The Velveteen Rabbit get pneumonia and die? Did he fucking die?

I think he fucking died. I only focused on the rabbit part of that story. Don't care about the rest.

And they end up taking, um, some of the things that Danny left behind at the Barlows house, one of which was a copy of the Velotine Rabbit book, which was his favorite book. And they fingerprint off of the pages of that book and they identify it. And it was his body.

And they fingerprint off of the pages of that book and they identify it and it was his body.

Was it? No, that's the secret garden. No, didn't the little boy in The Velveteen Rabbit get pneumonia and die?

I think he fucking died. I only focused on the rabbit part of that story. Don't care about the rest.

one of which was a copy of the Velotine Rabbit book, which was his favorite book.

One of which was a copy of the Velotine rabbit book, which was his favorite book. Oh.

So there are several episodes from the podcast that cover my second book, which was called American Sherlock.

And that book was about a forensic scientist and he had all of these amazing cases that made history.

It's so satisfying, maybe also because I'm from the Bay Area, but I really love this book.

It's about essentially the first forensic scientist, criminologist in America.

Who might've made a big mistake in this case.

And you haven't read yet on the American Sherlock by Kate Winkler Dawson.

Exactly right.

Podcast Tenfold More Wicked and Wicked Words.

She is one of the best true crime writers there is.

If you haven't read American Sherlock, you really have to. It's mind boggling.

This guy was at the source and center of so much stuff.

Yeah, totally. It's really good.

And if you like true crime, check out my book, American Sherlock, Murder, Forensics and the Birth of American CSI.

If you love historical true crime, please check out my books, American Sherlock and Death in the Air.

If you love historical true crime be sure to order my book American Sherlock.

My favorite recently is the book American Sherlock, which is an incredible, if you haven't read it, it's unbelievable. It's basically, you know, it's about one of the first forensic science scientists in America.

Okay, so what he did, and this is in conjunction with... Billy Jensen's book, Chase Darkness with Me, is being... They're doing these book events at Barnes & Noble's across the land.

You guys really just said his book I'm listening to right now. Isn't it good? Chase Darkness with Me.

our uh friend of the uh podcast, friend of the network, friend of the universe that we live in, Billy Jensen. Oh yeah. Has his book coming out. Hell yeah. So you can pre-order it today. The book is called Chase Darkness with Me.

it's basically about everything he's done. Like how into true crime he is and why.

Billy Jensen's book, Chase Darkness with Me, is being... They're doing these book events at Barnes & Noble's across the land.

And essentially, Billy went and found a very old murder case. And so they're going to be releasing clues.

And then you get to basically work on this murder case and try to solve it with the clues that are released.

You guys really just said his book I'm listening to right now. Isn't it good? Chase Darkness with Me. And yeah, get Billy's book.

our uh friend of the uh podcast, friend of the network, friend of the universe that we live in, Billy Jensen. Oh yeah. Has his book coming out. Hell yeah. So you can pre-order it today. The book is called Chase Darkness with Me.

It's basically about everything he's done. Like how into true crime he is and why. Yes and where how he got his start and what it's from and then also then these cases that he has come up against and it's just it gives you everything that a murderino would want in a book.

It was a formative text, Wisconsin Death Trip. Do you know of that?

It's an amazing book, but it's a collection of...a treasure trove of photographs taken in and around Black Falls in the 19th century, undeveloped prints, negatives they found and they're very odd.

Yes, it was a formative text. Wisconsin Death Trip.

It's an amazing book but it's a collection of it's a treasure trove of photographs taken in and around Black Falls, Wisconsin I think. In the 19th century undeveloped prints or negatives they found and they're very odd.

It was a formative text Wisconsin Death Trip Do you know of that?

It's an amazing book But it's a collection of It's a treasure trove of photographs Taken in and around Black Falls In the 19th century Undeveloped prints Negatives they found And they're very odd

I remember as a child being utterly gripped By funerary portraiture Of all these dead babies In christening dresses Crammed into their coffins Standing upright with their little eyes Half open I still can't get those images out of my mind But coupled with it were these wonderful Like true crime haikus Which were newspaper clippings From the local paper With various murders Madnesses and mayhems You know chronicled locally But wonderfully terse And dispassionate Scandinavian hired girl Murders all the children With a fire axe Burns the house with the horses down And the parents discover her laughing In her nightie in the snow Just the basics But then to a child's imagination You sort of go from there

Yes, it was a formative text. Wisconsin Death Trip.

It's an amazing book but it's a collection of it's a treasure trove of photographs taken in and around Black Falls, Wisconsin I think. In the 19th century undeveloped prints or negatives they found and they're very odd.

It's like kind of a documentary. It's called Wisconsin Death Trip.

They took a book, I think it was just of like the police blotter from cities around Wisconsin in the 1800s.

And so they just read the stories of what the police, what they were doing and what the crimes were.

It's called Wisconsin Death Trip.

I think it was just of like the police blotter from cities around Wisconsin in the 1800s. Mid 1800s, I believe.

And there is a book called Poisoned Love written by a woman named Caitlin Rother if you want to know all the gory details and there are so so many then read Poisoned Love and that is the story of the Rose Petal murder.

And there is a book called Poisoned Love written by a woman named Caitlin Rother. If you wanna know all the gory details, and there are so, so many, then read Poisoned Love.

And there is a book called Poisoned Love written by a woman named Caitlin Rother. If you want to know all the gory details and there are so so many then read Poisoned Love.

And there is a book called Poisoned Love written by a woman named Caitlin Rother. If you wanna know all the gory details, and there are so, so many, then read Poisoned Love.

And there is a book called Poisoned Love written by a woman named Caitlin Rother. If you want to know all the gory details and there are so so many then read Poisoned Love.

I was trying to read Moby Dick myself hard copy, but it was that kind of thing where I just kept falling asleep.

I would get through three pages and then fall asleep.

And then I was like, oh, this is the perfect solution. So I can still hear it. And then it's Phoebe reading it to me.

It's intimidating to look at the size of the book and just read it, but reading out loud, I had no idea how long it takes to read something out loud.

It's of course amazing writing. That's the reason it's a classic, but it's very dense and it's very specific.

I'm currently reading Moby Dick.

Oh, but Canon, but I'm doing it to be trendy. But I'm reading the Cliff's Notes version.

But then the ship is rammed and sunk by a sperm whale and that's when Herman Melville got his fucking idea to write Moby Dick.

And the captain of the vessel swore retribution on the culprit, but then the ship is rammed and sunk by a sperm whale and that's when Herman Melville got his fucking idea to write Moby Dick.

But then the ship is rammed and sunk by a sperm whale and that's when Herman Melville got his fucking idea to write Moby Dick.

I just started listening about a month ago and I love listening to the stories you share. I've been a murderino my entire life. I was an early reader, so in first grade I began reading Nancy Drew and my obsession with murder and mystery began.

I just started listening about a month ago and I love listening to the stories you share. I've been a murderino my entire life. I was an early reader, so in first grade I began reading Nancy Drew and my obsession with murder and mystery began.

My niece, two years old at the time, was standing on top of my desk pulling books out of an attached bookshelf one by one. I stood behind her, ensuring she didn't fall to her death should she trip on a Nancy Drew and stumble.

My niece, two years old at the time, was standing on top of my desk pulling books out of an attached bookshelf one by one. I stood behind her, ensuring she didn't fall to her death should she trip on a Nancy Drew and stumble.

Nancy Drew went public domain in January, and nobody is talking about what that actually means. The version of Nancy Drew that most of us grew up with, the 1959 version, is not the original version. As of January 2026, that original text is free. It's public domain. So I annotated it. The link is in my bio. Wow. It's $10.

but now she's making like a book club where for $10 you can join this thing of like original Nancy Drew book club storyline. I love it. I'm like- We're gonna all read it. OG Nancy Drew. She wears pants. Can you believe she's so rude as to ask a question? And she has a sword. Nancy Drew with the sword.

And I was like, sweetie, I can't have you read The Stand,

Oh my God, how was I allowed to read this?

Book The Stand.

But I love the book The Stand so much. I just got so into it when I was 12. I couldn't believe what I was looking at.

Like when I read The Stand, I was in The Stand. The world was ending because of the flu.

Book The Stand.

But I love the book The Stand so much. I just got so into it when I was 12. I couldn't believe what I was looking at.

Like when I read 'The Stand', I was in 'The Stand'. The world was ending because of the flu.