The Jordan Harbinger Show

So in his book The Happiness Advantage Sean Acore had this idea of activation energy.

And in his book The Happiness Advantage, Shawn Achor had this idea of activation energy.

So in his book The Happiness Advantage, Shawn Acore had this idea of activation energy.

I read the book before we actually did the show so I was I was like so glad that we got them on.

The shorter your sleep, the shorter your life.

Firstly, we know that a lack of sleep and fatigue causes more accidents on our roads than drugs and alcohol combined.

...if you haven't slept for 16 hours or whatever, which is like a normal day, and then you try to drive...

After 20 hours of no sleep...you are as cognitively impaired as you would be if you were legally drunk.

...the link between a lack of sleep and cancer is now so strong that recently the World Health Organization decided to classify any form of nighttime shift work as a probable carcinogen...working overnight will give you cancer.

I read the book before we actually did the show so I was I was like so glad that we got them on.

The shorter your sleep, the shorter your life.

I think the book was biased towards maybe...it wasn't skirmongering because I don't overemphasize, I don't exaggerate the science.

it was so frightening that it's actually now keeping me up at night doing the opposite.

Firstly, we know that a lack of sleep and fatigue causes more accidents on our roads than drugs and alcohol combined.

road traffic accidents are a lot more deathly when they're caused by insufficient sleep than either drugs or alcohol.

I read the book before we actually did the show so I was I was like so glad that we got them on.

The shorter your sleep, the shorter your life.

We know that short sleep predicts all cause mortality. It's a simple fact the shorter your sleep the shorter your life.

if you're trying to survive or regularly getting five hours of sleep or less, you have a 65% risk of dying at any moment in time increased risk relative to people who are getting seven hours or more.

Every major physiological system in your body and every operation of the mind is incredibly dependent on sleep, wonderfully enhanced when you get it and markedly impaired when you don't get it.

...recently the World Health Organization decided to classify any form of nighttime shift work as a probable carcinogen...working overnight will give you cancer, period.

I know this is what Ryan Holiday talks about, The Obstacle Is the Way and all that, but maybe I'm freshly inspired by having visited him this week down in Austin, but more than that, I guess what I'm saying is there's really no sense of lamenting what could have been because in all likelihood, what could have been never existed in the first place, what does exist, what did happen, that's probably much more interesting and much more meaningful than our fantasy of a life without challenges, without obstacles.

You kind of created this, not quite a drill, almost like a mindset of maybe listening out some things that you're afraid of and jumping right in.

Yeah, love Ryan Holiday, had him on the show twice and he wrote that book, obstacle is the way, you've got to tattoo it on his arm and I remember when I first read it, I was like, okay, that's a good book but I don't know if it's always the way.

And then the more I spend time here at London Real, I mean, London Real for me, it is like a crucible for me and it forces me to like face my demons and my obstacles like that's what it is, I think.

There's going to be hopefully some other surprises sponsored by Hyundai and that's going to be June 13th. You can get tickets very reasonably priced tickets that include one of Ryan's books.

I think I actually talk about this in my book Ego Is the Enemy, you want to make sure that you don't look at other people's stories and sort of project a clarity that was not necessarily there because it wasn't it was not for me.

So they hit you over the head with reciprocity by offering you free Disneyland tickets, three night getaways, all you can eat buffets.

I mostly listened to nonfiction audiobooks introduced on the show such as the psychology of persuasion, captivate, how to win friends and influence people etc.

I mostly listened to nonfiction audiobooks introduced on the show such as the psychology of persuasion, captivate how to win friends and influence people etc.

I mostly listened to nonfiction audiobooks introduced on the show such as the psychology of persuasion, captivate, how to win friends and influence people, etc.

And then I read The Artist's Way and I did those exercises and that is what broke me through by doing the morning pages almost instantly upon starting the morning pages I was able to write every day.

It's a very specific exercise. It's three long-hand pages. You're not allowed to lift the pen. You're not allowed to go back and reread it. You're not allowed to censor yourself. You have to fill three pages.

It taps into the subconscious somehow. It's sort of like dipping the pen and ink. It's like a way that before you're able to activate your critical, you know we all have like this critic inside us that might try to shut us down or tell us we're not good enough.

It's really great for anyone who wants to do anything tap into the most creative version of themselves.

and I recently interviewed Julia Cameron from my podcast who wrote this awesome book called The Artistway which a lot of people have cited as being you know this thing that they did they talk about this book as something they did because it gives you work stuff to workshop

And Dave was like well you have to do The Artist's Way.

Then I just was talking to Dave my life on Best Friend and I was like I'm really frustrated. I know I have to unblock myself. I'm finally willing to say I need to be a writer. All my friends are writers. All I want to do is read and watch movies. How am I not doing this?

It's a very specific exercise. It's three long-hand pages. You're not allowed to lift the pen. You're not allowed to go back and reread it. You're not allowed to censor yourself. You have to fill three pages.

And what happens when you do that every day is you just get in the habit of dumping your stuff out. Whatever you've been saying, do it early in the morning and you dump your stuff out and it just has this result of getting you firing and ready and active for the day.

We'll link to that book, of course, in the show notes, the book by Julia Cameron, The Artist's Way.

and I recently interviewed Julia Cameron from my podcast who wrote this awesome book called The Artistway which a lot of people have cited as being you know this thing that they did they talk about this book as something they did because it gives you work stuff to workshop

It was easy to then find The Artist's Way, right?

Dave was like well you have to do The Artist's Way.

It's three long-hand pages that you write free right in the morning.

It's a very specific exercise. It's three long-hand pages. You're not allowed to lift the pen. You're not allowed to go back and reread it. You're not allowed to censor yourself. You have to fill three pages.

What happens when you do that every day is you just get in the habit of dumping your stuff out. Whatever you've been saying, do it early in the morning and you dump your stuff out and it just has this result of getting you firing and ready and active for the day.

We'll link to that book, of course, in the show notes, the book by Julia Cameron, 'The Artist's Way'.

I recently interviewed Julia Cameron from my podcast who wrote this awesome book called The Artist's Way which a lot of people have cited as being you know this thing that they did they talk about this book as something they did because it gives you work stuff to workshop

I'd be remiss [if I didn't mention] everyone's going, how do you get these guests? It's always about the network. Check out our free course, it's on networking, not enter your credit card, free, just free, free. JordanHarbinger.com/course, where you can find that, teaching you how to create a badass network, and just I hate that word, why don't I even use that, and teaching you how to create a network in just a few minutes per day. JordanHarbinger.com/course, check it out. Most of the guests on the show subscribe to the course and the newsletter, so come join us, you'll be in smart company where you belong.

Go listen to Conflicted, go read his book. We'll link to it in the show notes.

I did write it. I have to ask my wife permission and she granted it.

Ironically, I found the entire writing of the book to be therapeutic. It was not as bad as I expected. I mean, I thought basically I will end up really having bad dreams or regrets and episodes of depression, but in fact basically like, I mean, it brought into sharp focus that what I did was the right thing.

And then of course, basically I went into podcasting, and yeah, I joined, you know, a very good friend of mine who I met six years ago, you know, an American who grew up in, you know, suburban California, who grew up in an evangelical Christian family, decided to become a Greek Orthodox monk, who then basically decided that he wanted to study about Islam and the Arab world, and who lived in many different countries in the Arab world, and then he got a massive degree in Islamic studies in Arabic language, became a documentary maker, a filmmaker, toyed with the idea of converting to Islam, but he remained a steadfast Greek Orthodox Christian at heart, but he and I basically, we became intellectual soulmates, so we decided to do this podcast series called Conflicted, which we talk about the conflicts of the Middle East and beyond from the prism of his deep Christian faith and my deep Muslim faith and how we all came into this point.

You started your book with this story of missing your nephews wedding and that to me really put your whole life kind of in the spotlight here because tell us why you missed the wedding.

It was September 2016. My wife was pregnant with our first child, our daughter and so I was supposed to go from Dubai to Bahrain to attend the wedding of my nephew for some reason you know three days before the wedding my wife was beginning to have some this bad vibe.

I remember I had a mass teacher in Saudi Arabia in middle school when I was 14 and he was such a wonderful young man only 26 he come from a quite affluent family his father was a Brigadier general in the security forces his uncle was the minister of transportation so affluent family his name ironically was Osama Mansouri.

When I arrived in Baku another bayjan and you know I talk about lots of many you know some funny incidents there for there but I leave it to the listener to read it in the book but when I arrive there I remember I was told by the leader of the Arab jihadist contingent in Cheshney as that look you know the mountain passes are not safe right now but you know what basically you're very good at math you know young students you know so how about you help us basically you stay in the office of a charity there in Baku and you help us with you know everything that we need in terms of diverting funds calculating the cost of you know five thousand tens for refugees in fact basically only two thousand but you know just inflate the numbers and you create a accounting really in order to divert as much money food, guns medical supplies and the cash of course for weapons as well as cash for bribes.

I remember him telling us this very ominous in the warning he said the art of bomb making is extremely fine and delicate your first mistake is going to be your last remember sorry I was checking my phone I think I did this one goes first right yes and then boom that's it.

I'd be remiss everyone's going how do you get these guests it's always about the network check out our free course it's on networking not enter your credit card free just free free Jordan Harbinger comm slash courses where you can find that.

If you're smart and you like to learn and improve, you're going to be right at home here with us.

This is part two of two with former Al Qaeda bomb maker turned MI6 informant Aimen Dean.

I did write it I have to ask my wife permission and she granted it so and yeah to write a book you had to ask permission to write a book because it would be such a pain in so much time.

I'm very proud in a Boris Johnson so I voted for him twice when he was a mayor of London and so I'm a conservative by heart but nonetheless you can confuse them enough to stop them from doing stupid things which then put them on the journey towards discovery of the truth.

You started your book with this story of missing your nephews wedding and that to me really put your whole life kind of in the spotlight here because tell us why you missed the wedding.

When I was 14 I was attending a middle school it was late 1992 and the Bosnian conflict was raging by then for several months and as you know basically the you know in Bosnia they voted for independence from Yugoslavia I know the Serbian minority within Bosnia aided by you know the Serbian Republic launched a campaign of ethnic cleansing right against the Bosnian Muslims and therefore the news you know and the footage that used to come from there were you know so vicious and so shocking in their nature.

I remember I had a mass teacher in Saudi Arabia in middle school when I was 14 and he was such a wonderful young man only 26 he come from a quite affluent family his father was a Brigadier general in the security forces his uncle was the minister of transportation so affluent family his name ironically was Osama Mansouri when we arrived back to school when we came back to school after the summer vacation a teacher came to our class to tell us that our mass teacher was killed in Bosnia fighting a jihad there and he had a member of the Bahrain royal family Bahrain is just next door to us it's a small country but it's a small kingdom and you know so one member of the Bahrain royal family was there so I remember wondering why would a Bahrain prince and our teacher who come from a very affluent family would go and sacrifice their lives for people who we hardly knew about until months ago that they existed even and I remember that teacher who was trying his best to attempt some sort of grief counseling with us but ended up you know giving an exhilarating lecture about jihad he said to us that a sacrifice does not taste so sweet unless if you have it all and you give it all away and it was the first time I heard the three words of jihad sacrifice and martyrdom all in the same breath and it got me thinking so much as to how in a fascinating that what I was reading in Sayyid Qotub's interpretation of the Quran on the verses related to martyrdom and how he talked about it so passionately it related these to modern day struggles of the Islamic movements against you know the Arab nationalist and the communist and before that the in a French and British colonial rule of the Arab world as well as the Italian rule in Libya so the way he related all of this suddenly all came together rely relies on my mind therefore for the next two years I was always following what was coming you know out of Bosnia in terms of footage and news about the atrocities and the massacres there.

I remember him giving me a piece of paper with a phone number in it and he said call this number tell them it was me Khaled asheikh that's how we used to know him tell them Khaled asheikh sent you and that said that's all you you know they need to know and they will take you into a good training camp in Afghanistan where you will be trained.

When some of laden arrived he was asking if there are any people from Saudi Arabia and the vicinity he was only about 45 minutes drive in a firmware we were and so 14 of us you know basically all of us went into one car yes and to one pickup car all of us you know it felt like at the time i really felt what you know crammed cattle would feel basically in the back of a clown car you're 14 people on a van well it wasn't the van it was a pickup car so basically it wasn't i pick up truck oh oh so you're like all in the payload of this pickup truck and there's like five people in the camp indeed yeah so i remember basically we were in a just childish you saying bad whatever so you know pretending to be lambs or whatever so we went to see Osama the laden now many people i remember that day was i think either the fourth of the fifth of august of 96 i remember many people were always asking me what was your first impression when you saw Osama the laden and i know that all of them expect me to say that i saw something great something magnificent something overwhelming you know all of that and i say well it was a little bit underwhelming actually the first time i met him because when he arrived back from Sudan he was a guest of one of the Taliban warlords and they were all in a compound that belonged to him he and the rest of the al-Qaeda people who fled from Sudan and arrived in Afghanistan they looked like refugees in suitcases and boxes everywhere unopened you know he came in a usually when you see Osama the laden and the first image that comes to your mind is a nicely dressed individual in a you know a neat turban neat robes in a well iron no crease nothing what i saw in front of me that they basically it was a very crease arabic headscarf you know an arabic robe and looked disheveled you know basically and and camped and all of them looked like that they looked like and they were actually you know a bunch of refugees who just escaped you know with their lives from Sudan just two weeks earlier.

I did write it, I have to ask my wife permission and she granted it.

Ironically, I found the entire writing of the book to be therapeutic.

It was not as bad as I expected, I mean I thought basically I will end up really having bad dreams or regrets and episodes of depression.

But in fact, basically like I mean it brought into sharp focus that what I did was the right thing.

You started your book with this story of missing your nephews wedding and that to me really put your whole life kind of in the spotlight here because tell us why you missed the wedding.

It's a 6000 sorry 4000 page book and six volumes you know so basically of course writing this over nine years when he was in prison he was of course who you know awfully mistreated there you know he wrote it through the prism of pain.

The stories you tell on both conflicted the podcast as well as in your book which will link in the show notes.

I remember I had my doubt basically that this behavior was right I was thinking if the prophet Muhammad was here would he have sanctioned this.

I remember when I arrived in Baku another bayjan and you know I talk about lots of many you know some funny incidents there for there but I leave it to the listener to read it in the book.

We also spoke with Daniel Goldman who literally wrote the book on social and Emotional Intelligence. He's the author of one of these seminal works in the space and it was an honor to sit down with him.

If you want to know how we managed to book all these great guests and manage relationships with high performing people, amazing folks of all walks of life and lots of them by the way, check out our six minute networking course.

One thing that when I was reading the books, I kept coming up on which is almost cliche at this point, which is that technology is keeping us from connecting and I think everyone has talked about this or heard about this on the news recently.

I remember so take Emotional Intelligence. That was the name of an article that I read in 1990 in a journal that was written by a guy who was an assistant professor at Yale.

However that journal went to fund no longer exists but I did make the phrase well known in the book Emotional Intelligence.

And when I wrote the book before it came out I thought you know if I'm one day here two people use the phrase Emotional Intelligence and they both know what it means. I'll have succeeded.

We also spoke with Daniel Goldman who literally wrote the book on social and Emotional Intelligence.

He's the author of one of these seminal works in the space and it was an honor to sit down with him.

I don't agree that it keeps us from connecting. I think it makes us connect differently and in some ways it creates a deficit.

The slower circuitry was this later accessory that was added on the neocortex, the thinking brain, which takes time to figure it out but probably comes up with a better answer, technically and when we're too impulsive.

Trauma is a disorder of the amygdala.

Emotional Intelligence being intelligent about emotions is a learned and learnable skill.

And that's where I see a problem coming. That's going to be that can't be good.

We also spoke with Daniel Goldman who literally wrote the book on social and Emotional Intelligence.

He's the author of one of these seminal works in the space and it was an honor to sit down with him.

Him and his work are just incredible.

If you want to know how we managed to book all these great guests and manage relationships with high performing people, amazing folks of all walks of life and lots of them by the way, check out our six minute networking course.

One thing that when I was reading the books, I kept coming up on which is almost cliche at this point, which is that technology is keeping us from connecting and I think everyone has talked about this or heard about this on the news recently.

And when I wrote the book before it came out I thought you know if I'm one day here two people use the phrase Emotional Intelligence and they both know what it means. I'll have succeeded.

That was the name of an article that I read in 1990 in a journal that was written by a guy who was an assistant professor at Yale. He's now the president of Yale, Peter Salave and I thought wow that is such a great term.

I've gotten hundreds or thousands of letters from people that say, hey, I have Asperger's and I listen to your show a lot because I have to manually learn emotional key.

I actually think Dan Pink's book When, which is all about timing your day and rank is like really really fantastic for creatives because it seems like a really simple concept but I think he does a really good job talking about how as people we all have these different sort of rhythms to how our days work and you actually just want to lean into those rhythms right.

Today we'll explore the idea that timing is everything; the problem is we just don't know that much about timing itself.

It's called 'When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing'.

It's really unfair to people who are just slightly younger than me, literally a couple of years behind, who went to law school or any type of career start. They really took a huge economic hit.

It's scary, I think that's really scary.

I wish we had time to get into all of that, but we'll leave some for the folks at home to enjoy When they pick up the book, of course, as well.

It's called 'When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing'.

The book is called 'When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing'.

I highly recommended [Dan Pink's books]. He has four best sellers including the one we'll be discussing today entitled 'When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing'.

Today we'll explore the idea that timing is everything, the problem is we just don't know that much about timing itself...

We find that humans are wired for time. Can you give us a brief overview of how we are wired for time, the SCN circadian rhythm type of thing?

Today we'll explore the idea that timing is everything, the problem is we just don't know that much about timing itself.

It's called 'When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing'.

The book is called 'When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing'.

In the book and that we talked about on the show, there's a lot to be said for even a 5, 10, 15, or ideally 20-minute break, whether or not you can nap in the middle of your day.

For years we've been led to believe that picking a specific field of study as early as possible and sticking with it was the key to becoming a high performer in our field.

But what if the key to becoming great in a specific field was not to start narrowing our practices down as early as possible, but instead to study a wide breadth of seemingly unrelated fields entirely.

the thesis seems to be that often by specializing we're sacrificing true understanding or true performance.

I think in that well-meaning drive for a head start we often sort of short circuit learning even like whatever the material is.

we learn who we are in practice not in theory

For years we've been led to believe that picking a specific field of study as early as possible and sticking with it was the key to becoming a high performer in our field.

But what if the key to becoming great in a specific field was not to start narrowing our practices down as early as possible, but instead to study a wide breadth of seemingly unrelated fields entirely.

In the book, the thesis seems to be that often by specializing we're sacrificing true understanding or true performance.

I think that definitely rings true. I think it's understandable, it seems efficient, it's the well-meaning drive for a head start but I think you mentioned medicine again specifically, I think people are starting to recognize that that is actually sometimes problematic that while there's no question that specialization in medicine has been both inevitable and beneficial, I think people are increasingly realizing some of the drawbacks when you kind of take out people who have a view on the bigger picture.

We learn who we are in practice, not in theory.

For years we've been led to believe that picking a specific field of study as early as possible and sticking with it was the key to becoming a high performer in our field. But what if the key to becoming great in a specific field was not to start narrowing our practices down as early as possible, but instead to study a wide breadth of seemingly unrelated fields entirely.

In the book, the thesis seems to be that often by specializing we're sacrificing true understanding or true performance.

I think that definitely rings true I think it's understandable it seems efficient it's the well-meaning drive for a head start but I think you mentioned medicine again specifically I think people are starting to recognize that that is actually sometimes problematic that while there's no question that specialization in medicine has been both inevitable and beneficial I think people are increasingly realizing some of the drawbacks when you kind of take out people who have a view on the bigger picture.

I think in that well-meaning drive for a head start we often sort of short circuit learning even like whatever the material is.

we learn who we are in practice not in theory you actually have to do stuff and then reflect on it

I was waiting in line. I was buying a shovel which ends up, you know, it's totally a metaphor. I had to dig myself out but it's funny how life can be metaphor.

And I came upon this guidebook. I'd never heard of the Pacific Crest Trail and there was this book.

I wrote about this in Wild one of the things, I mean it was really like one of the biggest surprises of my life to have the feeling that I wasn't anymore suffering.

I was hunting in a remotely upright position but that's the beauty I think of any kind of recovery I guess is you don't have to be doing it perfect you don't have to be upright you don't have to be fast you just have to get yourself in a remotely upright position and go.

I nicknamed my backpack monster because it was so big and heavy and it was like my companion and later when you know that was something that just I wasn't thinking like it's a metaphor I'm carrying my own monster on my back but later when I ran the book I'm like wow it's a monster and we all we all have to learn to make friends with our monsters

I just decided that I would be expanded by doing this thing.

I was told there's this kind of big tank kind of midway through that these ranchers have for their cattle and it was a water source is a water source for hikers and I knew that I could only carry a certain number amount of water to get to that tank and I was told there was water in that tank and I got there and the tank was empty and I had no water and it was like a hundred and some degrees it was incredibly hot.

I was so surprised by how remote the trail was I knew it would be solitary but I didn't know it would be so solitary I mean no electronics no phones no iPods no drugs no booze no escape from your escape that you're trying to to make there.

I was afraid of snakes I was afraid of bears and I was afraid of cougars otherwise known as mountain lions and you know those are real things and I encountered bears and snakes several times I probably encountered mountain lions but I didn't see them I'm quite sure they saw me yeah you know I was walking through cougar country for sure.

I was also afraid of men yeah that's a good point right because cougar might go as she's too big but a drunk you know guys might not make that same calculation yeah I mean the human animal who's the most dangerous one to women is the human male.

I was waiting in line. I was buying a shovel which ends up, you know, it's totally a metaphor. I had to dig myself out but it's funny how life can be metaphor.

I wrote about this in Wild one of the things, I mean it was really like one of the biggest surprises of my life to have the feeling that I wasn't anymore suffering.

I was so surprised by how remote the trail was I knew it would be solitary but I didn't know it would be so solitary I mean no electronics no phones no iPods no drugs no booze no escape from your escape that you're trying to to make there.

I am not afraid I am not afraid I am not afraid and of course I said it because I was and I was having to tell myself that I had to be brave and strong in order to do this thing that I really wanted to do

I really wrapped my arms around this idea I call it surrendering to my own mediocrity I said you know what maybe I'm a mediocre writer maybe I am I'm going to be her full throttle I'm going to write this book and whatever people think of it is not up to me.

Retain the craftsman mindset. This is another concept from Mastery's / The Daily Laws.

the first chapter in Mastery was called discover your life's task and so the first month of the daily laws is about that the month of January

it's the most important thing in your life right now particularly if you're younger you know if you're in your 50s or 60s it's getting a little bit late I'm sorry to say but it's never really too late but if you're younger man that is the most important thing you can learn

The first chapter in Mastery was called discover your life's task and so the first month of the daily laws is about that the month of January because it's really if I had to say it Jordan it's the most important thing in your life right now particularly if you're younger you know if you're in your 50s or 60s it's getting a little bit late I'm sorry to say but it's never really too late but if you're younger man that is the most important thing you can learn I can't emphasize it enough because I have studied throughout my years and the thousands of books I've read for my research biographies the most successful famous creative people and I've done consulting with people on the highest level so I've seen this firsthand and I've done it in my research and inevitably these are people who understood at some point in life that this is what I was destined to follow this is a path for me.

That was exactly the question asked to me by Adam Grant on my I'm admiring a who wrote this Originals book and when he was interviewing me we were talking about this and I think he was disappointed with the answer and the answer was that we learned it through experience and we get it to the point where something works and then the real sobering moment was when Zimbabwejans and Belrashans came to Serbs in 2003 and say oh we need your advice.

i wrote The Dip in two weeks you can write a book if you get out of your way

You pick up Seth Godin's book The Dip and it's just immediately apparent that that guy is telling you the truth about something a discovery that he really made he's not guessing

i wrote The Dip in two weeks you can write a book if you get out of your way

You pick up Seth Godin's book 'The Dip' and it's just immediately apparent that that guy is telling you the truth about something a discovery that he really made he's not guessing

i wrote The Dip in two weeks you can write a book if you get out of your way

I would even say versus double double I cover this in the book The Miracle Morning for entrepreneurs

I've been friends with Hal for years, and he's always been so incredibly generous of spirit, and has really created something special with his miracle morning community, and I'm excited to have him here on the show today.

So it's interesting, so The Miracle Morning was it wasn't a book idea. It was my own attempt in 2008 when the economy crashed.

It was really the writing the book from authentically. This is how it helped me. Hopefully, it helps you. I didn't think it was going to be this worldwide phenomenon. I didn't think it was going to sell my name in copies. I just was like, this will help a few people.

And it's not necessarily that they got it by reading it. But there's just too much correlation between successful people and those that like get up workout attack the day. Get up. Do the right different things.

And it's sold almost two million I think overall yeah which I didn't know I literally the foreign publishers don't report so like right like once a year I find out how many so if somebody asked me on how many copies I sold in Brazil I'd be like I probably like 50,000 yeah and then I get down there last week and my publishers like we want to present you this plaque with you sold 500,000 copies of The Miracle Morning in Brazil.

I would even say versus Double Double, I cover this in the book The Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs

So it's interesting, so The Miracle Morning was it wasn't a book idea. It was my own attempt in 2008 when the economy crashed.

I just was like, this will help a few people. And so I owe it to share it because it helped me.

And it's sold over 500,000 copies and that's all because in Brazil or overall just in Brazil.

It's sold almost two million I think overall yeah which I didn't know I literally the foreign publishers don't report so like right like once a year I find out how many.

My publishers like we want to present you this plaque with you sold 500,000 copies of The Miracle Morning in Brazil.

I would even say versus double double I cover this in the book The Miracle Morning for entrepreneurs

It was my own attempt in 2008 when the economy crashed. I was like, what are the world's, or what do successful people do?

It was really the writing the book from authentically. This is how it helped me. Hopefully, it helps you.

If you've never been a morning person in your entire life and that chapter is the lynchpin.

I didn't think it was going to be this worldwide phenomenon. I didn't think it was going to sell my name in copies.

I don't think social media in some broad sense is necessarily bad. I don't think it has to be bad forever.

I think that there's this business model that makes it bad and so people can connect together in things like social media very positively.

We're in a cage, we're being watched, manipulated and analyzed while inside this cage.

Social media can manipulate your behavior and it puts your free will under threat.

If triggering emotions is the highest prize and negative emotions are easier to trigger, how could social media not make you sad?

maybe just go buy her a copy of Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts Right Now from jaren linier because she definitely needs to do that because you got this ridiculous it's ridiculous

I don't think social media in some broad sense is necessarily bad I don't think it has to be bad forever I think that there's this business model that makes it bad

If each person has a personalized feed and this is very important that's calculated to manipulate that person that's calculated to change the behavior patterns of that person and make no mistake if that wasn't going on Facebook would be bankrupt

when Facebook proves it can make people sad or when Facebook proves it can repress a vote or you know these are things that's published as as scientific papers the people couldn't have pulled that they that it was happening to them nobody ever detected it

if triggering emotions is the highest prize and negative emotions are easier to trigger how could social media not make you sad if your consumption of content is tailored by near limitless observations harvested about people like you how could your universe not collapse into the partial depiction of reality that people like you also enjoy

What makes a platform bad is that it's optimized for third parties who are paying out of a belief that they can change your behavior

maybe just go buy her a copy of Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts Right Now from jaren linier because she definitely needs to do that

I don't think social media in some broad sense is necessarily bad. I don't think it has to be bad forever.

I think that there's this business model that makes it bad and so people can connect together in things like social media very positively.

What's happened with kind of mainstream social media is that it's been taken over by this advertising paradigm and what that means is anytime two people connect it's financed by some third person who wants to manipulate those people.

The whole system because that's the only way anybody makes money, the whole system becomes optimized for addiction, manipulation, sneaky, mistrickingness.

If you look at examples where you don't have everything optimized for these third parties who believe they can manipulate you, it doesn't have to be that way.

maybe just go buy her a copy of Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts Right Now from jaren linier because she definitely needs to do that because you got this ridiculous it's ridiculous

you also recommended recommended Celeste headley's book We Need to Talk she does Ted talks will link to that in the show notes she also did of course you did our show because she's a friend of mine episode 423 that's how I learned about her what is your podcast good news to you great thank you yeah the book has nothing to do with cults by the way folks it focuses on teaching people how to talk and mostly listen with curiosity rather than judgment again that's 423 of this show and will link that in the show

I normally don't go right into a book spiel but I loved this book. It's right up my alley. There's lots of research on social science, psychology, neuroscience as applied to conversations and human interaction, especially as experienced as somebody who's been doing interviews for almost a decade longer than I have.

And so I ended up finding all this research and this knowledge from neurological fields and from sociological fields even teaching English as a second language there's some really valuable research there and I started compiling a set of things that actually worked that I could test out in my professional field.

One of the things I point to in the book is they did this massive study on how much space people leave between one person finishing a sentence and another person responding.

And when I say massive I mean worldwide every continent they studied tons and tons of different places and they found that on average human beings leave less than a half a second of space which means there is no way you have heard what the other person said.

It's also probably why research shows that older people are worse listeners than millennials. Younger people are better listeners and I have to wonder if that's because they're less prone to assume they know already what you're saying and what you think.

you also recommended recommended Celeste headley's book We Need to Talk she does Ted talks will link to that in the show notes she also did of course you did our show because she's a friend of mine episode 423 that's how I learned about her

I normally don't go right into a book spiel but I loved this book. It's right up my alley. There's lots of research on social science, psychology, neuroscience as applied to conversations and human interaction, especially as experienced as somebody who's been doing interviews for almost a decade longer than I have.

And one of the things in 'We Need to Talk' that really struck me at first was that changing how you listen will actually improve what you have to say.

It's not directly cognitive bias or perhaps it is a different kind of cognitive bias where we always assumed that we know what's going to happen but bias creeps into our speech and our thought presses and certainly in our conversations and you write about that a lot in the book.

I think we're about one tenth of the way through the good stuff in the book and I would just love to keep going.

big thank you to Celeste love her work the book is called 'We Need to Talk' we'll link it in the show notes

Celeste headley's book We Need to Talk she does Ted talks will link to that in the show notes she also did of course you did our show because she's a friend of mine episode 423 that's how I learned about her

I normally don't go right into a book spiel but I loved this book. It's right up my alley.

There's lots of research on social science, psychology, neuroscience as applied to conversations and human interaction, especially as experienced as somebody who's been doing interviews for almost a decade longer than I have.

Today we'll outline some strategies that will make you a better conversationalist and give you actionable steps that you can take to improve your communication skills.

One of the things in 'We Need to Talk' that really struck me at first was that changing how you listen will actually improve what you have to say.

And when I say massive I mean worldwide every continent they studied tons and tons of different places and they found that on average human beings leave less than a half a second of space which means there is no way you have heard what the other person said.

You mentioned some faux signals in the book and one thing I felt was particularly interesting was how I gaze a specific type of I gaze gives away undercover officers.

So if you look for the elements, you know there's a relationship going on or not a relationship and the way that this ends up sort of outing undercover cops is instead of looking like an actual criminal who walks into the bar and goes all right.

One concept that you have that I think is I don't want to say underrated but possibly one of the most useful from the book is making people feel good about themselves so that they seek to be around you and get those feelings again.

I know that you let people correct you in class when you make a mistake I'm wondering if you make the mistake deliberately to let people correct you but also why do you let people correct you in class or encourage people I should say to correct you in class what does that do

And in the interest of time but you mentioned a lot about anger towards the end of the book and you've said that why people get angry and get frustrated is not it's not always for the most obvious reasons right it's we're frustrated because of a lack of communication or we're talking about that.

I absolutely would and that's what kind of motivated me to write The Like Switch and that is because I recognize all the tools I needed or what was required to learn to recruit spies and I said wow all we're doing is developing relationships with people and then influencing those people.

Those same skills that we can use to recruit spies, we can also use in business, dating, family and all any time you have to interact with somebody you can use these same skills.

I'd love to break that down the learnable and teachable elements of this. I know that's what you do in The Like Switch but there's a few really cool juicy morsels that I would love to talk about.

I think this is from the book as well from The Like Switch that people are slower to leave a parking space.

And that's what we look for those nuances you mentioned food forking early that food forking was another one right and that totally makes sense right I don't go I don't hang out with someone if I'm having lunch with you for the first time I don't go oh that looks good let me get some of those fries.

This is the follow-up from your previous book, The Like Switch which will definitely have to have you come by and talk about at some point.

You mentioned some faux signals in the book and one thing I felt was particularly interesting was how I gaze a specific type of I gaze gives away undercover officers.

If I'm going to go see my supervisor my chair in the department or supervisor in the FBI and I want to influence that person I always say sir you got a minute I want your advice on something and of course they go of course you do so they sit down and now you start using your techniques and one of the techniques I use is something called the lip purse and that is when you push your lips out a little bit.

One concept that you have that I think is I don't want to say underrated but possibly one of the most useful from the book is making people feel good about themselves so that they seek to be around you and get those feelings again and I can imagine that coming in extremely handy when recruiting intelligence agents and making friends making connections generating rapport.

There is a lot in the book about recognizing a plate knowing when to use empathic statements physical and non verbal communication observing other people and drills and exercises on how to do that I'll go for some of that in the show close but we'll put a little bit more in the worksheet.

There's a lot more in the book as well about empathetic statements how to use them generating rapport generating even romantic connections depending on how you want to use that I wouldn't say it's the kind of stuff you might use inside a marriage or inside a relationship but if you're dating a lot of this stuff can be very, very useful techniques like recognizing a plate right where you go to restaurant the servers really have an hectic day and you say something like boy you must be busy I could never keep up or the store is slam you say wow you must be on your feet all day I couldn't do it that will increase the quality of service and the quality of your rapport there's a lot of little techniques like that in the book again I do recommend this if you're in the service industry especially because while some of the techniques like shared experiences oh we're from the same place oh we're doing the same course of study oh we have the same type of religious faith whatever that may be those shared experiences those techniques might seem obvious there's also things like the misattribution principle that are less obvious right so you might anchor yourself to an experience they're having such as a workout or a benefit.

I absolutely would and that's what kind of motivated me to write The Like Switch and that is because I recognize all the tools I needed or what was required to learn to recruit spies and I said wow all we're doing is developing relationships with people and then influencing those people.

Those same skills that we can use to recruit spies, we can also use in business, dating, family and all any time you have to interact with somebody you can use these same skills.

I'd love to break that down the learnable and teachable elements of this. I know that's what you do in The Like Switch but there's a few really cool juicy morsels that I would love to talk about.

I think this is from the book as well from The Like Switch that people are slower to leave a parking space you know it's something like you're pulling into the parking lot of target and you see somebody go to their car and they sit in the car and you're going what is taking so long

I've got your number

I definitely want to have you back some time we'll talk about your other book The Like Switch obviously I could take a page or two out of that one I'm sure that you agree there could probably use a little polish myself

I went to Robert lift and the guy who wrote the book thought reform and the psychology of total

I went to Robert lift and the guy who wrote the book thought reform and the psychology of total of the book and I have a total of them.

Robert Lichten when he was doing his research on Chinese Communist brainwashing in the fifties and wrote his seminal book thought reform in the psychology of totalism in his famous chapter 22 he outlined eight criteria of brainwashing and one was loaded language and it's thought terminating cliches how he he wrote about it that it's it's something that's known only inside the group it has no meaning to anyone outside of the group where people think it's childish or stupid but it comes it shuts down any type of understanding of reality

Robert Lichten when he was doing his research on Chinese Communist brainwashing in the fifties and wrote his seminal book thought reform in the psychology of totalism in his famous chapter 22 he outlined eight criteria of brainwashing and one was loaded language and it's thought terminating cliches how he he wrote about it that it's it's something that's known only inside the group it has no meaning to anyone outside of the group where people think it's childish or stupid but it comes it shuts down any type of understanding of reality.

I went to Robert lift and the guy who wrote the book thought reform and the psychology of total

Robert Lichten when he was doing his research on Chinese Communist brainwashing in the fifties and wrote his seminal book thought reform in the psychology of totalism in his famous chapter 22 he outlined eight criteria of brainwashing and one was loaded language and it's thought terminating cliches how he he wrote about it that it's it's something that's known only inside the group it has no meaning to anyone outside of the group where people think it's childish or stupid but it comes it shuts down any type of understanding of reality

but I know we've discussed this on the show before with guys like near a y'all who wrote Hooked which is about why things like apps and services are creating addictions

my first book Hooked is about how to build habit forming technologies habit forming products it's not about how to build addictive products addiction is something very different

it's not a game it's not a social network it's the bible app the bible app is one of the most widely used apps in the world and it actually uses many of these same techniques that i talk about in my book hook these behavioral design techniques to create habits for people

Your first book that I read was called Hooked and I thought oh, that's really interesting.

Hooked was this book on how to build a kind of products that people want to use that improves their lives.

Now it just so happens that my model for how to do that came from the best in the business right if you want to get really good at something, if you want to be an amazing runner, maybe you call you same bolt right if you want to be an amazing investor you call Warren Buffett.

So the best in the business when it comes to consumer engagement and retention are these social media companies right.

Your first book was called Hooked.

my first book Hooked is about how to build habit-forming technologies habit forming products it's not about how to build addictive products addiction is something very different

the bible app is one of the most widely used apps in the world and it actually uses many of these same techniques that i talk about in my book hook these behavioral design techniques to create habits for people

your first book that I read was called Hooked and I thought oh, that's really interesting

Hooked was this book on how to build a kind of products that people want to use that improves their lives

For many people who read the book...more of a mainstream audience that doesn't necessarily build apps or websites...And they tell me my god my eyes were open because I never knew that this was being done to me

your first book was called Hooked

my first book Hooked is about how to build habit-forming technologies habit forming products it's not about how to build addictive products addiction is something very different

the bible app is one of the most widely used apps in the world and it actually uses many of these same techniques that i talk about in my book hook these behavioral design techniques to create habits for people