The Jordan Harbinger Show

He's also done just many so many interesting things on television and beyond. And one of the central tenets of The Show, as y'all know, no advice may be given unless that person has direct or nearly direct experience with the same or similar situation.

And I think there's a lot here. If you're wondering how I manage to book all these great authors, thinkers and creators every single week, it's because of my network and I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at jordanharbinger.com slash course.

Mike Rowe of Dirty Jobs and The Way I Heard It podcast (and book) fame joins us to talk about the skills gap, The mikeroweWORKS Foundation, authenticity, and life experiences possible outside the comfort zone.

That's why my podcast is called The Way I Heard It. That's why my book is called The Way I Heard It.

...coincidentally the title of your new book The Way I Heard It...

...and now you've got this book The Way I Heard It...

Well it's really...everybody should write a book...this was supposed to be a simple collection of 50 of my favorite podcast stories with a little bit of connective tissue...

...the podcasts are mysteries and what I would call tiles if you look at the book as a mosaic...collectively the grout turned into a memoir...

That's why my podcast is called The Way I Heard It. That's why my book is called The Way I Heard It.

Well, it's really, you know, I said to you before we started rolling, everybody should write a book, you know, everybody should write a book and wait tables. You'll learn things about yourself.

This was supposed to be a simple collection of 50 of my favorite podcast stories with a little bit of connective tissue.

What happened was I started picking the stories and then I started to essentially write about why I wrote the story.

It's the feel good hit of the fall available now on audible, hopefully it's not audible.

He's also done just many so many interesting things on television and beyond. And one of the central tenets of The Show, as y'all know, no advice may be given unless that person has direct or nearly direct experience with the same or similar situation.

And I've watched and read just about everything that he's created.

My dad when he found out that I was going to interview you, he said, you know what you should do is wear some dirty clothes because you're interviewing the guy from dirty jobs.

And I think there's a lot here. If you're wondering how I manage to book all these great authors, thinkers and creators every single week, it's because of my network and I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at jordanharbinger.com slash course.

Great big thank you to micro his podcast is called The Way I Hurt It if you haven't heard it the format will sound a little bit like the way I ended this show wasn't that clever but really such an amazing guy really appreciate talking with him always

That's why my podcast is called The Way I Hurt It. That's why my book is called The Way I Hurt It.

coincidentally the title of your new book The Way I Heard It and I was like oh so you gonna do it all in one take

and it's the same basic idea tell stories of people who are interesting and try and tell them in an interesting way

Well it's really you know I said to you before we started rolling everybody should write a book

it's a hot mess of biography autobiography mystery and memoir it's the feel good hit of the fall

Her book is called Captivate and her course is called People's School

her book by the way is called Captivate

Her book is called Captivate and her course is called People's School

her book by the way is called Captivate, I've heard me talk about it before, I highly recommend going and grabbing that one, she just she really just knows this stuff upside down.

Her book is called Captivate and her course is called People's School

I went on Charlie Rose when my book came out last year and it was awesome.

This book definitely reminds me. There's a few places in the book where I'm like, oh, this is that guy.

The way you spun this Iraq war documentary, that's what reminded me of Thank You for Smoking.

This book definitely reminds me.

There's a few places in the book where I'm like, oh, this is that guy.

This is like in Thank You for Smoking, it's a great movie.

The guy gets kidnapped.

He doesn't die.

That's why we we invented Moscow rules. We didn't have like Paris rules or Tokyo rules or this is the only city in the world where the opposition was just so leaning on us so hard that we trained, we deployed everything we did there was unique because of that embrace that we were in of surveillance.

I think the first case we talked about was really our first big case there that was in '63 that was at the beginning when we were unable to basically manage an espionage case in in Moscow.

it would be easier to run an agent on Mars that was Dick Helms one of one of our legendary chiefs of CIA that was his comment and it was right on the mark there's something like 50,000 KGB agents in Moscow to counter the CIA and other foreign intelligence agencies.

that number came from Oleg Kalugin and Oleg was a KGB officer he didn't defect Oleg lives in the United States now he transplanted himself he became disenchanted with KGB and he went into politics in Russia he was in the parliament for a while and then he decided that he'd start a new life over here they had already taught him as a spy in the KGB perfect English.

This book, Moscow Rules, is about really is the broader office not just disguise not just documents but the people that did bugs the people that built them the people that turned into third-story guys that would go in and install those bugs it's about the people that did all the research R&D on batteries for their entire careers they're trying to make those batteries smaller and smaller and stronger and stronger.

we wrote a book called The Moscow Rules and at the front of that book we list the rules, there were 42 of them and we added a rule to never fall in love with your agent.

It's almost sounds like a nice little KGB hug that you had going there.

I think the first case we talk about was really our first big case there that was in '63 that was at the beginning when we were unable to basically manage an espionage case in Moscow.

It would be easier to run an agent on Mars than it was to run an agent in Moscow.

That's what this book, 'Moscow Rules', is about really is the broader office not just disguise, not just documents but the people that did bugs, the people that built them, the people that turned into third story guys that would go in and install those bugs.

They were into bubble memory long before the private industry was. We were looking into areas that the small batteries for instance, that eventually spilled out into the commercial market and they're in hearing aids and our watches and our phones and all that stuff today.

For those of us that have seen James Bond, she was basically Q but for the CIA.

I think in the book I think the first case we talk about was really our first big case there that was in 63 that was at the beginning when we were unable to basically manage an espionage case in Moscow.

It would be easier to run an agent on Mars than it was to run an agent in Moscow.

That number came from Oleg Kalugin and Oleg was a KGB officer, he didn't defect, he calls it lives in the United States now, he transplanted himself, he became disenchanted with the KGB and he went into politics in Russia.

The book title is The Moscow Rules, the secret CIA tactics that helped America win the Cold War.

It was a smothering kind of surveillance and that's why we invented Moscow rules.

It would be easier to run an agent on Mars.

There's something like 50,000 KGB agents in Moscow to counter the CIA and other foreign intelligence agencies.

I think the first case we talk about was really our first big case there that was in '63.

The Soviets in in in Washington DC insisted on bringing all their own workers and no American touched anything, not a brick when they built the Soviet embassy.

I've read "To Sell Is Human" for the first time recently.

I love it and I don't like a lot of the stuff that I read but I really, really liked the book because there's a lot of original stuff in here that's not just make sure you're following up with your prospects every day.

And so I wanted to read a decent good smart book about sales and persuasion except for Cheldini's influence which is a remarkable book.

I decided at some level to write a book about sales for people who might never read a book about sales.

The book is titled "To Sell Is Human"

One was Dan Pink, To Sell Is Human, I love that one.

Yeah, my dad's a lifelong salesperson and he said this is the best book on sales that he's ever read, so To Sell Is Human is definitely something to pick up.

One was Dan Pink, 'To Sell Is Human.' I love that one.

Yeah, my dad's a lifelong salesperson and he said this is the best book on sales that he's ever read so 'To Sell Is Human' is definitely something to pick up.

This is one from the vault. You should listen to this show because we're going to talk about why sales and a sales skillset are part of our lives, whether we're a salesman, why do we like it or not?

I've read To Sell Is Human for the first time recently. I'm surprised I haven't read it before. Probably just wanted to be the one guy who hadn't. I love it and I don't like a lot of the stuff that I read but I really, really liked the book because there's a lot of original stuff in here that's not just make sure you're following up with your prospects every day.

And that's certainly true but To Sell Is Human. I had a lot of experiences interviewing business people and spending time around companies and whatnot and talking to people who were in sales.

And I think that's an important realization because a lot of people say, I don't want to be in sales. I hate selling, I hate the profession of selling, I'm not in sales.

I think the real big takeaway here Jordan is that this introversion extroversion thing that we always talk about it's not binary all right it's not black and white it's gray and the truth in the matter is that most of us are little bit of both and that's a good thing because the people who are a little bit of both are more effective at sales and persuasion so do you think and do we have any data on whether or not it's easier for an extrovert to dial it back versus an introvert to take social risk and move outside their comfort zone

One was Dan Pink, To Sell Is Human. I love that one.

My dad's a lifelong salesperson and he said this is the best book on sales that he's ever read so To Sell Is Human is definitely something to pick up.

I think I always kind of believe that but I didn't want to believe it and there were all these things to tell me that wasn't true. But now I see that it is true.

I think that story is a very powerful one because it is true and what we did is economic hitmen.

And so the majority of the people suffered because money was diverted from health, education and other social services to pay the interest on the loans.

We weren't helping the poor get better lives. We were helping the rich get richer. We were helping the United States colonize a great deal of the world with US corporations primarily.

I get to say, those techniques are not winning us trends around the world.

I think I always kind of believe that but I didn't want to believe it and there were all these things to tell me that wasn't true. But now I see that it is true.

And so you know, I think that story is a very powerful one because it is true and what we did is economic hitmen.

I get to say, those techniques are not winning us trends around the world.

I think the Chinese have learned from the mistakes we Russians made and you Americans have made.

I think times have proven that I'm right and across my book and my stuff has been thoroughly vetted by many organizations including the New York Times and many others.

This reminds me of this book I read a while ago confessions of an economic hitman right I did read that that was great

I think I always kind of believe that but I didn't want to believe it and there were all these things to tell me that wasn't true. But now I see that it is true.

And so you know, I think that story is a very powerful one because it is true and what we did is economic hitmen.

And I think the reason I saw that was a lot of other people didn't was because I'd been in the Peace Corps I spent three years in Ecuador and the Amazon and the Andes working with very poor people who were on the other end of the deals they were the bad end of the deals and so I'd seen this I spoke Spanish fluently I was highly influenced by the head of state of Panama, Omiteri House who was very opposed to what the United States was doing and stood up against it and he was one of my clients I was sent down to bring him around and I not only could I not bring him around but in a way he brought me around he really helped me understand he and a lot of other things were going on helped me understand that what we were doing was not at all what we were trying to convey that we were doing it wasn't the impression that we were sending out to the world we weren't doing that we weren't helping the poor get better lies we were helping the rich get richer we're helping the United States colonize a great deal of the world with US corporations primarily.

I don't think even after a couple of beers a good spies every call himself a spy or a spook but they might do it you have with their buddies doesn't I don't know but yeah yeah I mean it is a term that we kind of use tongue in chief kind laughing about it sometimes but it certainly wasn't on our business cards

I'm being hit you know I do it exactly what I done to leave some other country here here's a handful of money yeah or right you know you know it comes next so how come what did you cash the check is that what we're having this conversation

This reminds me of this book I read a while ago, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man.

She's a game designer, future forecaster and best-selling author of Super Better which I've just read among other books of course.

The game was later renamed Super Better hence the book.

One concept that I loved that you did relate to your concussion was something called post traumatic growth that was new for me and I thought wow I want I mean anytime I hit trauma I want post traumatic growth.

I was really confounded my doctor was confounded she's like you should be better by now and you know because I didn't think I'd ever had a serious concern stop you never wanting and my parents like two months into the healing process are like oh yeah well you had really bad concussion when you were three and I'm like wait what I mean I remember falling off the slide and breaking my collarbone but I didn't know I had a concussion I'm like you guys could have mentioned that yeah that would have helped in my you know planning for how to get through this if I had known yeah sure.

I really recommend it I thought this episode was fascinating I could have recorded for another hour but again you know I want to keep it concise as possible for you guys.

She's a game designer, future forecaster and best-selling author of Super Better which I've just read among other books of course.

The game was later renamed Super Better hence the book.

I was really confounded my doctor was confounded she's like you should be better by now and you know because I didn't think I'd ever had a serious concern stop you never wanting and my parents like two months into the healing process are like oh yeah well you had really bad concussion when you were three and I'm like wait what I mean I remember falling off the slide and breaking my collarbone but I didn't know I had a concussion I'm like you guys could have mentioned that yeah that would have helped in my you know planning for how to get through this if I had known yeah sure

One concept that I loved that you did relate to your concussion was something called post traumatic growth that was new for me and I thought wow I want I mean anytime I hit trauma I want post traumatic growth it's kind of like a little bit of gasoline on the trauma fire or on the development fire right

I really recommend it I thought this episode was fascinating I could have recorded for another hour but again you know I want to keep it concise as possible for you guys

Nothing to Envy is also the title of a book by Barbara Demerick about now

I think that a lot of the stories especially in the book Nothing to Envy, books like that that are just so rich in detail that you couldn't make them up so I think in in most cases people are probably telling the truth are very close to the truth and the cases where somebody was out like outright lying I should say are probably the exception

I think that a lot of the stories especially in the book Nothing to Envy books like that that are just so rich in detail that you couldn't make them up so I think in in most cases people are probably telling the truth are very close to the truth and the cases where somebody was out like outright lying I should say are probably the exception

Nothing to Envy is also the title of a book by Barbara Demerick about now

I think that a lot of the stories especially in the book Nothing to Envy, books like that that are just so rich in detail that you couldn't make them up so I think in in most cases people are probably telling the truth are very close to the truth and the cases where somebody was out like outright lying I should say are probably the exception

Your friend might actually want to give that episode a listen that was episode four four eight surges book blue print for revolutions such a great book I know that way your friend is going through isn't as oppressive as an authoritarian dictatorship but it's definitely some kind of unjust system and she might find some great methods in there for taking it down in a clever way in a peaceful way

This is one from the vault but it's especially pertinent right now.

Now I remember watching the surgea revolution, the latest one on television and watching a bulldozer go into a parliament building and I thought everybody was pretty brave when I was watching that on TV.

The fact that there are people across the world who watch that movie bringing down the dictator, they get inspired, they come to us, they speak to us, they say oh the Serbs did something really cool against a really bad guy who was convicted or criminal and did so many different things.

I think the bravery is something you mentioned and I don't think we were particularly brave and I think very often in our life we find ourselves in a situation where the situation dictates the rules.

why this book is so much related to my favorite personal bible which is the Lord of the Rings so the hobbits they're the least usual suspects to change the world they are not all they're not wearing the shiny armors they don't know magic and they're just lazy and love to eat and sit at home and smoke pot and I think what made us think that or wish that we can change the world was the same force that was driving for other bargains and I think this is because there was nobody else to do the job.

This is one from the vault but it's especially pertinent right now.

Now I remember watching the surgea revolution, the latest one on television and watching a bulldozer go into a parliament building and I thought everybody was pretty brave when I was watching that on TV.

The fact that there are people across the world who watch that movie bringing down the dictator, they get inspired, they come to us, they speak to us, they say oh the Serbs did something really cool against a really bad guy who was convicted or criminal and did so many different things.

It's not boring it doesn't have put notes so if you're explaining the academic book don't buy this one but there is an academic research on it and two great American scholars Maria Stefan and Erica Chenovet were looking at the different aspects of non violent struggle they found it up that non violent struggle is twice more likely to succeed over the last 100 of years then the violent struggle.

One of the reasons then I'm getting letters from readers who are coming from a marketing sector and they read looping for revolution is it find this fascinating it was also a necessity rather than the conscious business model thinking.

Your friend might actually want to give that episode a listen that was episode four four eight surges book blue print for revolutions such a great book.

This is one from the vault but it's especially pertinent right now.

Surgea was actually one of the organizers of the resistance to slow-but-on Molosevic and Surgea in the 90s.

Now I remember watching the surgea revolution, the latest one on television and watching a bulldozer go into a parliament building and I thought everybody was pretty brave when I was watching that on TV.

I think the bravery is something you mentioned and I don't think we were particularly brave and I think very often in our life we find ourselves in a situation where the situation dictates the rules.

why this book is so much related to my favorite personal bible which is the Lord of the Rings so the hobbits they're the least usual suspects to change the world they are not all they're not wearing the shiny armors they don't know magic and they're just lazy and love to eat and sit at home and smoke pot and I think what made us think that or wish that we can change the world was the same force that was driving for other bargains

her book is called Love Skills her previous book was called Love Cycles will link to both of those in the show notes

you many of you have read Love Cycles loved it wrote me about it so only fair that we link to both

her book is called Love Skills her previous book was called Love Cycles will link to both of those in the show notes you many of you have read Love Cycles loved it wrote me about it so only fair that we link to both

She's the author of Love Cycles.

one of the things in my, you know, my five stages of relationships

She's the author of Love Cycles.

one of the things in my you know my five stages of relationships

I think that that the strong feeling we don't know how to recognize it is something to hold back from because everything or so much in our culture says go for it and feeling can mean big trouble.

I think that that is a that's a trick we play on ourselves and gosh I think you get to a certain age and you know your tendency to play those tricks don't you?

I deal with people in all kinds of messes and people can make messes work but boy what a schlep that is that I think the trick is don't go over the line to start with because the rationalization starts in ways that we can manage.

Linda's previous book was called Love Cycles, will link to both of those in the show notes, you many of you have read Love Cycles loved it wrote me about it so only fair that we link to both.

Zach Dykwald, he's the author of the book Young China and the founder of Young China group, which is a consulting firm in a think tank.

the first person we talked to was Zach Dykwald he's the author of the book Young China and the founder of Young China group which is a consulting firm in a think tank he has been on the show of course

China has more millennials than North America, the Middle East, and Europe combined.

There's actually more young people in China than there are in North America, Europe and the Middle East combined.

My friends born in 1990 in China have watched their per capita GDP increase 27 times in their life.

Young China was in stores, sold out completely by the time you're watching this right

the book title is Young China how the restless generation will change their country and the world

Zach Dykwald he's the author of the book Young China and the founder of Young China group which is a consulting firm in a think tank he has been on the show of course and he said that this fear that your cousin will be targeted or compromised it's almost certainly overblown

China has more millennials than North America, the Middle East, and Europe combined.

There's actually more young people in China than there are in North America, Europe and the Middle East combined.

My friends born in 1990 in China have watched their per capita GDP increase 27 times in their life.

They just think that's water because that's all they've known for most of them.

Young China was in stores, sold out completely by the time you're watching this right.

They suspect foul play all of a sudden after my book and everything came out.

He put out a big article on October of last year. But he put down that I went out there to whack the party.

I'm gonna do a book on my father's world so because my father and I got a beautiful story and my father took out a guy up in Connecticut class act my old man was.

It's in my book.

I'll show you that we ever get together. I showed him like videos that I did that, when you record on your phone and I put up and I've been saying all about my father since last year with the Irishman and with everything else and about Jimmy Hartford.

Oh forget about book what book one I've got to add more stories into it I took it away from the publisher that I was at and some publishers from LA wanted and they want me to put more stories so we pulled it off the shelf but I believe we can go to the printer or whoever and you can get copies of the book I'm gonna put seven more episodes in it and they want to make the book bigger and they want to do a book tour book signings and everywhere the other company that I had they didn't all got they didn't do nothing so they were a lot of nonsense so I says you know what I want out of the contract they were nice about they sure might you know what I want then they gave me out of the contract with no problem nice

I read book one we'll link it up in the show notes.

I'm excited to read that. I read book one.

There's a lot more to that story but I got that in book two which you'll all be surprised on the matter.

I'm very curious that's in book two all right.

Oh forget about book what book one I've got to add more stories into it I took it away from the publisher that I was at and some publishers from LA wanted and they want me to put more stories so we pulled it off the shelf but I believe we can go to the printer or whoever and you can get copies of the book I'm gonna put seven more episodes in it and they want to make the book bigger and they want to do a book tour book signings and everywhere the other company that I had they didn't all got they didn't do nothing so they were a lot of nonsense so I says you know what I want out of the contract they were nice about they sure might you know what I want then they gave me out of the contract with no problem nice

I read book one we'll link it up in the show notes.

I'm very curious I'm very curious that's in book two all right

I even got more about luft hondon in book two and everything that was in book one stay tuned for part two of this interview coming up in just a couple days here

There's a lot more to that story but I got that in book two which you'll all be surprised on the matter

I'm gonna do a book on my father's world so because my father and I got a beautiful story and my father took out a guy up in Connecticut class act my old man was.

It's in my book.

And I got in touch with the Vatican, matter of fact, what's his name? The guy from the post wrote a big article. But he put it down that I went down to whack the Paul.

Brad Hamilton.

He put out a big article on October of last year. But he put down that I went out there to whack the party.

Oh forget about book what book one I've got to add more stories into it I took it away from the publisher that I was at and some publishers from LA wanted and they want me to put more stories so we pulled it off the shelf but I believe we can go to the printer or whoever and you can get copies of the book I'm gonna put seven more episodes in it and they want to make the book bigger and they want to do a book tour book signings and everywhere the other company that I had they didn't all got they didn't do nothing so they were a lot of nonsense so I says you know what I want out of the contract they were nice about they sure might you know what I want then they gave me out of the contract with no problem nice

I think I read the whole book in like three hours it's very short so there's room for more

I read book one we'll link it up in the show notes.

I'm excited to read that.

The podcast is called 'The Enforcer', relating to his book.

without skipping a beat he then told me the next step would be to get this book called the go giver by Bob Berg

my first assignment would be to read the book and then we would discuss it in four to five days

I love Bob Berg, he's a friend of mine, I know that he's going to be super annoyed when he hears this

I've read the go giver, Bob Berg's been on the show like I said, I like him, the concepts are solid, has nothing to do with MLM whatever this guy is selling

read the book, it seems interesting, it's got some legit endorsements, see if you can take anything away from it

without skipping a beat he then told me the next step would be to get this book called the go giver by Bob Berg

I've read the go giver Bob Berg's been on the show like I said I like him the concepts are solid has nothing to do with MLM whatever this guy is selling

Bob man this guy he is he wrote essentially an instant classic called the go giver and also the go giver leader him and John David man really it's like a modern parables for being a great networker and being very giving and everything and it's just they've just sold hundreds and hundreds of thousands of copies of these books

Bob man this guy he is he wrote essentially an instant classic called the go giver and also the go giver leader him and John David man really it's like a modern parables for being a great networker and being very giving and everything and it's just they've just sold hundreds and hundreds of thousands of copies of these books

it goes along with what I said about Dale Carnegie is how to win friends and influence people where we might know the concepts but whether or not we're applying them as a totally different story.

without skipping a beat he then told me the next step would be to get this book called the go giver by Bob Berg

I've read the go giver Bob Berg's been on the show like I said I like him the concepts are solid has nothing to do with MLM whatever this guy is selling

He's a jet pilot, author of the hilariously titled Losing the Nobel Prize.

the book started off as a with a title Losing the Nobel Prize sort of as a double on tone.

the Nobel Prize needs to be done away with at least it's negative aspects that we can get into and therefore it needs to be lost in its current form and kind of revived in a better form.

our discovery was really one for the ages if it had held up the reason that it wasn't awarded to us no member of my team one so we all lost it in a certain sense is because we were trying to study the origin of the very largest thing that possibly exists namely the universe and in so doing we were spoiled and actually ruined our results weren't wrong we didn't make a blunder but it turned out we were kind of tripped up by the smallest substance in the universe namely dust.

I wouldn't trade it I got fired from Stanford it's one of the best if not the best you know place to study physics to do it's physics I got fired I mean can't I'd never been fired from anything I was you know like the academic golden boy and here I was my first real job out of graduate school and it was the best thing that ever happened to me I never would have met my mentor Andrew Lang I never would have been taken under his wing I would have never have it the opportunity to create this experiment called bicep I would never have gotten the job that I have at UC San Diego I never would have met my wife and I never would have had my kids.

life can only be lived going forward but it can only be understood looking backwards and that's the theme of the ethical will you're looking back and it doesn't have to be the very end of your life like Alfred Nobel it can be right now it should be right now don't delay don't tary thank God Coby wrote his book before he died and thank God you know Victor Frankl and Anne Frank and others wrote their books do it yourself too.

He's a jet pilot, author of the hilariously titled Losing the Nobel Prize.

The book started off as a with a title 'Losing the Nobel Prize' sort of as a double on tone.

It became like you know winning an Oscar or winning best podcast of the year it became a goal into itself.

I had to deal with this crushing blow as you say to come so close and not win after all the blood sweat and tears and travel and people that I knew and loved and lost over the decade it took to make these measurements.

I'm still told that by people that the research I'm doing is great I'm still have a chance to win the Nobel Prize and I say that would be pretty ironic at this point after all the criticism I make in the book.

I wanted to take the clothes off the emperor or show that the emperor is naked that this you know kind of sacrificing yourself and again I'm not a scrabbing motives to either these gentlemen one of whom I knew well why they committed suicide will probably never know exactly why.

because I talk a lot about what I call internal triggers these uncomfortable emotional states that prompt us to action

one of the most popular notions is that motivation is about the pursuit of pleasure and the avoidance of pain we call this Freud's pleasure principle and that's not true it's just not true that neurologically speaking it is pain all the way down

and so that has to be the first place to start and there are two ways to go there so one method is to actually deal with a discomfort and i don't think we talk about this enough

He's been a friend of the show for a while and he's the author of the book hooked and the forthcoming book Indistractable which is coming out here in a few months.

And that comes out one, who knows.

The book title will be Indistractable.

it took me five years to write this book because there's just so much research out there a lot of misinformation out there

in writing Indistractable is this idea that we have to come to grips that all behavior all behavior is driven by a desire to escape discomfort

it gets to the core of I think some of the ridiculous commentary we've had lately around how technology is hijacking your brain and how it's addictive and how it's so bad

He's been a friend of the show for a while and he's the author of the book hooked and the forthcoming book Indistractable which is coming out here in a few months.

And that's kind of the the line of thinking for my next book is that I kept hearing from people who said Great, you know You taught me how these products are built and and for many people who read the book

The next book is called Indistractable

the subject of my next book because I talk a lot about what I call internal triggers these uncomfortable emotional states that prompt us to action

one of the most popular notions is that motivation is about the pursuit of pleasure and the avoidance of pain we call this Freud's pleasure principle and that's not true it's just not true that neurologically speaking it is pain all the way down

in writing Indistractable is this idea that we have to come to grips that all behavior all behavior is driven by a desire to escape discomfort

part of the reason I wrote this book is because I was struggling with distraction myself in many ways

great big thank you to near iL his book is called Indistractable his other book is called hooked of course we'll leave that in the show notes for you

On this episode we're talking with my good friend Shane Snow. He's also the author of a couple of books including Dream Teams in which I'm quoted. Well misquoted but hey, I'm in a book so there.

and in dreamtimes I go through this analogy of you could say that any problem that you are trying to solve or anything you're trying to make a breakthrough on all the solutions could be represented by a mountain range with different mountains of different heights and the taller the mountain that you can climb up the better of the solution

I did a study for Dream Teams about essentially open-mindedness and because we can now kind of measure open-mindedness which we hadn't been able to do until literally 2017 turns out that the more television you watch up to a certain point I think it's like eight hours a week if you watch between two and eight hours of television a week fictional not news but like TV shows you tend to rank higher on open-mindedness tests

I put together on my website an assessment based on on these newly published studies for intellectual humility and open-mindedness you can actually take it um you can uh I don't know if uh did I send you a link to to that actually

the research in Dream Teams is actually pretty novel you did a great job with the book and I'm looking forward to seeing more from you in the future man

It's the number one most underserved topic in business even though we hear all about it all the time almost at nauseam especially when you're going to school and it's also the thing our society needs most right now.

I got kind of hooked on, you know, with the other stuff that I've written it's often explorations of myths and whether they're true and what the nuances are. So I started getting on this kick about human collaboration.

It's kind of like you know improv comedy I think it's a good example of when it works well you have two people or five people you know on a stage doing an improv show making up jokes as they go and they feed off each others work they build off each others work and the show is funnier than potentially right then one of them doing standup.

I did a study for Dream Teams about essentially open-mindedness and because we can now kind of measure open-mindedness which we hadn't been able to do until literally 2017 turns out that the more television you watch up to a certain point I think it's like eight hours a week if you watch between two and eight hours of television a week fictional not news but like TV shows you tend to rank higher on open-mindedness tests.

The biggest leading indicator that a relationship is going to fail is the same thing that indicates that a company merger is going to fail or that a new hire that you make in your company is going to fail and that is not fighting it turns out that is stopping the fight and ignoring each other you stop talking about the things that are important that's when you know things are going to fall apart.

He's the founder and CEO of Track Maven and the author of The Creative Curve, how to develop the right idea at the right time.

Most people think creativity is this fixed thing that you either have or you don't, you're either this demigod or you're enormous like the rest of us.

The book is split up into two halves. So the first half of the book is sort of like a one-on-one on the science and history of creativity, what we know about it, what we don't know about it, how our thoughts are on creative and developed over time.

And the second half of the book I interviewed about 25 living creative greats.

I actually think Dan Pink's book When, which is all about timing your day and rank is like really really fantastic for creatives.

this comes from from research from a friend of mine named Alan Gnett who has a book coming out pretty soon called The Creative Curve

I've always been a big believer that there's this overlap between the right brain and left brain and that when you look at things like creativity that seem like organic and nebulous, there's actually a lot of systems and logic to it.

So most people of course want to develop their creative powers, but have no clue where to begin. And in fact, how do you even know that we can develop these creative powers?

But here's the thing, there's been these studies for years we've been studying this stuff and we've done creativity cross neuroscience psychology, sociology and the conclusion is, no matter how you look at it, we see that creativity is a learnable, nurturable skill.

And they've done longitudinal studies where they follow kids with genius level IQs for their entire life starting from childhood. They find those kids are no more likely to be these great, you know, big future household names.

But I think we've been sold this idea that creativity is a special thing because it's what sells magazines.

I've always been a big believer that there's this overlap between the right brain and left brain and that when you look at things like creativity that seem like organic and nebulous, there's actually a lot of systems and logic to it.

Most people think creativity is this fixed thing that you either have or you don't, you're either this demigod or you're enormous like the rest of us.

But here's the thing, there's been these studies for years we've been studying this stuff and we've done creativity cross neuroscience psychology, sociology and the conclusion is, no matter how you look at it, we see that creativity is a learnable, nurturable skill.

We've been embellishing creativity for years because I think it's what sells.

I think people like the idea that there's these people out there who are special, who have these powers because I think it also makes us feel like there might be something like that for us.

Her new book, Seven and a Half Lessons About the Brain, is out now.

I have a whole chapter on how emotions are used in the law in my first book how emotions are made it's full of fascinating little tidbits that will entertain your friends at dinner parties when we have dinner parties again but also slightly horrify you when you realize the ways in which mythical notions about rationality and emotion are kind of weaved into our legal system.

I did write about all of this in the New York Times a couple of years ago and I just want to make it clear when I'm saying this that I'm not saying that this is a different explanation than racism and I'm also not saying that this is a form of racism I'm just speaking as a neuroscientist that seeing a gun where there is no gun is perfectly explainable under many conditions just based on understanding how your brain predicts and creates your experience.

Dr Feldman Barrett's book also covers things like how our brain sees things when we have different predictions and expectations of the brain is wired so that seeing is influenced by feeling so if you're scared you will literally see the world differently than if you are calm which explains a lot of the things we thought we saw as kids or what things are kids think they see in the dark.

big thanks to Dr Lisa Feldman Barrett's Seven and a Half Lessons About the Brain is her latest book she's got a couple books that are all interesting reads links to those will be in the show notes please do use our website links if you buy books or anything else from guests here on the show that does help support the show

Dan Dinnett wrote about this in one of his seven thousand books that I think he's published.

Her new book, Seven and a Half Lessons About the Brain, is out now.

I'd love to talk about how brains develop in newborns...your book when we were talking about tuning and pruning the newborn brain that's interesting to me.

I read in your book that relating to and understanding people who look or act different than us is more taxing on our brains...

The analogy that I use in the book both books actually...

I did write about all of this in the New York Times a couple of years ago...

Her book which is linked in the show notes goes into detail on the situation in North Korea.

Her human trafficking story.

It discusses the negotiations on the price she was sold for etc.

It's really just surreal and again a harrowing tale.

I think you'll really enjoy.

her story is no matter which way you look at it, absolutely incredible.

It's in her book, her YouTube channel and other interviews have really covered a lot of ground already.

her book, which I recommend

I feel like you've told your story so well in so many places that it'd be a shame if we just read it that

Her book which is linked in the show notes goes into detail on the situation in North Korea.

Her human trafficking story.

It discusses the negotiations on the price she was sold for etc.

It's really just surreal and again a harrowing tale.

I think you'll really enjoy.

her book, her YouTube channel and other interviews have really covered a lot of ground already.

it's in her book, which I recommend