On Being with Krista Tippett

In his 2007 book, The Future of Marriage, even as David Blankenhorn argued against gay marriage as a social good, he wondered what would it take for our collective confrontation with this issue to become redemptive rather than divisive?

But the best thing to this day is still his 2007 book, is a 2007 which is future marriage. It's still the best anti-gay marriage saying that because it's got a good preface.

In his 2007 book, The Future of Marriage, even as David Blankenhorn argued against gay marriage as a social good. He wondered what would it take for our collective confrontation with this issue to become redemptive rather than divisive?

In his 2007 book, The Future of Marriage, even as David Blankenhorn argued against gay marriage as a social good, he wondered what would it take for our collective confrontation with this issue to become redemptive rather than divisive?

But in the summer of 2012 he announced a change of direction. My intention is to try something new, he wrote in the New York Times. Instead of fighting gay marriage, I'd like to help build new coalitions bringing together gayes who want to strengthen marriage with straight people who want to do the same.

the best thing to this day is still his 2007 book is a 2007 which is future marriage. It's still the best anti-gameria saying that because it's got a good preface.

In his 2007 book, The Future of Marriage, even as David Blankenhorn argued against gay marriage as a social good. He wondered what would it take for our collective confrontation with this issue to become redemptive rather than divisive?

In his 2007 book, The Future of Marriage, even as David Blankenhorn argued against gay marriage as a social good.

So the paperback of my book's coming out, I want to take your highly critical review and use it as the forward.

Jonathan Rouse is a lifelong journalist and also a gay man who believes that marriage equality for gays and lesbians can strengthen the value of institutional marriage for everyone.

Imagine what that does to your life today and imagine what it does when you're growing up. You know when you're eight or nine or twelve the first kiss, the first crush, the first date. All of this is leading to family formation and marriage on a home and you don't have any of that.

More unstable than the one you were accustomed to before your Kafka-esque metamorphosis, no doubt. Probably less healthy, less happy, perhaps full of sex but not as full of love. It is a world of fragile families, a world marked by heightened fear of loneliness or abandonment in old age. A world in some respects not civilized because marriage is the foundation of civilization.

Jonathan Rouse is a lifelong journalist and also a gay man who believes that marriage equality for gays and lesbians can strengthen the value of institutional marriage for everyone. He honors the sanctity and social sense of this tradition as he's known to complain more than many of the straight people he talks to.

And this can strengthen marriage. Here we have new recruits to this institution. It's going to help shore the thing up.

He's a guest scholar at the Brookings Institution and a contributing editor of National Journal and The Atlantic. His latest book is Gay Marriage, white as good for gays, good for straits, and good for America.

In his book on Gay Marriage, this thought experiment. What have you woke up one day and marriage didn't exist anymore?

When I talk about this I try to always start there with the moral imagination of asking people. You know most of you people here are straight a lot of you were married. Imagine that your marriage went away and I don't mean that you got divorced. I mean that you never got married, never could marry, never had the prospect of marrying. Imagine what that does to your life today and imagine what it does when you're growing up.

I have seen the grimness that creeps into the face of the caregiver.

In 2010, you were 54 or the A-Diamne now. And you just completed your second year as the Dean of the College of Education, Leadership and Counseling. Your kids were grown and settled. You wrote, we had two cats. I was a bite-communer. Evan, I spent a month in Indonesia. We drank a lot of wine. We ate a lot of fish. 2010 was a great year. And then you got this diagnosis, essentially, as you described it, which helped me understand this. You know, your motor neurons were dying.

So all of that made me curious about, if, you know, if you trace that kind of language or how you think about that spiritual sensibility you have now that you might trace back to your childhood. Perhaps in surprising ways.

In the book that's coming out in April, I talk about how, I talk about how Elizabeth Kubler was. Who I have great respect for. Creates a false set of power.

But these five stages of grief, the idea that you did that you barged, did you're depressed? Did you go into this kind of late, your angry, and then finally you accept. What, what that to be represents is this sense of false human control. If we date it, we could control it.

I have seen the grimness that creeps into the face of the caregiver. That's a very stark sentence.

I have seen the grimness that creeps into the face of the caregiver.

Don Delilo, who sounds like his mother-in-law was suffering from Alzheimer's, which was his exposure to this and he... He opened your mind up about that, didn't he? It was a different way.

I think, Dawn in his book. Dawn Delila?

He writes about the group and they summoned the force of final authority. No one knew what they knew here in the last clear minute before it all closed down.

He was writing in this book that he wrote called Falling Man about a group, not unlike the group that we ran. A writing group for people in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease.

He was writing in this book that he wrote called Falling Man about a group, not unlike the group that we ran a group of people in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease.

Don Delilo? Yeah, yeah. He writes about the group and they summoned the force of final authority. No one knew what they knew here in the last clear minute before it all closed down.

He was writing in this book that he wrote called Falling Man about a group, not unlike the group that we ran. A writing group for people in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease.

Dawn in his book, Condelilla? Yeah. He writes about the group. And he refers to it as a final authority. They summoned the force of final authority.

He was writing in this book that he wrote called Falling Man about a group, not unlike the group that we ran a group of people in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease.

if you know I look at the vagina my lungs The Good Body I mean the stomach yeah there's there's not a play I mean it's been a kind of obsession and I really it's really an interesting thing I think you think you're in your body and then you get cancer and you wake up after nine hours of surgery with tubes and catheters and all kinds of things coming out it and you realize that you it's the first time your life you've ever been in your body like you are a body you are pure body and that experience is so it was just so incredible it was so incredible to be in my body to not have this being abstraction

So I just want to say, this is a gorgeous book. Thank you. I don't do book interviews, so we're not doing a book interview, but to me, you know, so much of what you've always written about, you know, it comes together in here in amazing ways. Thank you.

since I wrote In the Body of the World I cannot tell you how many letters I have gotten from women telling me about themselves or their mothers who were survivors of battery who got cancer they could they could directly see their relationship when the battery started when the cancer happened I think in years to come we will we will think of trauma and and cancer and they will they will not be separate we will be treating them we will we and that's done to say people are to blame but I don't think we can dismiss the connection between abuse and violation and cruelty and the desecration of spirit body and mind and what that does to the cells of our body in the same way we can't dismiss what fracking does to the earth it's impossible but we don't because we're not associated we're just we're just blindly going through fracking and fucking to ya this you all change that language fracking and well they're well we're busy fracking and destroying our way through you know

of all the institutions in their lives, only the Catholic church had seemed aware of the fact that my mother and father are thinkers, persons aware of their experience of their lives.

of all the institutions in their lives, only the Catholic Church had seemed aware of the fact that my mother and father are thinkers, persons aware of their experience of their lives.

In your memoir, Hunger of Memory, you said, 'of all the institutions in their lives, only the Catholic church had seemed aware of the fact that my mother and father are thinkers, persons aware of their experience of their lives.'

There's this line in your memoir, Hunger of Memory that I thought was so striking. You said, of all the institutions in their lives, only the Catholic church had seemed aware of the fact that my mother and father are thinkers, persons aware of their experience of their lives.

There's this line in your memoir, Hunger of Memory that I thought was so striking. He said, of all the institutions in their lives, only the Catholic Church had seemed aware of the fact that my mother and father are thinkers, persons aware of their experience of their lives.

But it's said within the framework of the political appeal of 1915 when Bengal was in turmoil because Lord Gerson was at that moment. And dividing it into two halves, he's been going in this big goal.

It was the partition of the palace, it was kind of a philosophy of divide and rule but it was end and the population was separated along Hindu and Muslim lines.

But then there was this other side of the ghost writing and of his thinking which was really idealistic and spiritual. And he could never block that out either.

And there's one little short story of his, which was later filmed by Satya Jitri and became a great classic of Bengali cinema. Actually one of the lovely films you could see, it's called the Postmaster.

The name was Ratan. He falls ill with malaria, she nurses him, but when he recovers he decides he can't stand this life anymore. And he packs up and leaves for the city.

And the little girl is devastated. She feels utterly abandoned. He just started teaching her to read and write it meant so much to her.

And it was inspired by a real postmaster who used to come and visit to go and bore him between long-tell stories.

The name was Ratan. He falls ill with malaria, she nurses him, but when he recovers he decides he can't stand this life anymore. And he packs up and leaves for the city.

And the little girl is devastated. She feels utterly abandoned. He just started teaching her to read and write it meant so much to her.

And then he just walks away. And although he does feel a bang of guilt, perhaps things of being a money she refuses to take it. And he gets on to this boat and sails away and thinks, oh life is so full of parties full of death.

And the girl writes, no such philosophy arose in Ratan's mind. A wash with tears she wandered round and round the post of his head. Perhaps her dad a bubble would return, a last for the foolish human heart.

And it was inspired by a real postmaster who used to come and visit to go and bore him between long-tell stories.

The name was Ratan. He falls ill with malaria, she nurses him, but when he recovers he decides he can't stand this life anymore. And he packs up and leaves for the city.

And the little girl is devastated. She feels utterly abandoned. He just started teaching her to read and write it meant so much to her.

And then he just walks away. And although he does feel a bang of guilt, perhaps things of being a money she refuses to take it. And he gets on to this boat and sails away and thinks, oh life is so full of parties full of death.

So what is the point of retracing one's steps? And the girl writes, no such philosophy arose in Ratan's mind. A wash with tears she wandered round and round the post of his head. Perhaps her dad a bubble would return, a last for the foolish human heart.

And it was inspired by a real postmaster who used to come and visit to go and bore him between long-tell stories.

The name was Ratan. He falls ill with malaria, she nurses him, but when he recovers he decides he can't stand this life anymore. And he packs up and leaves for the city.

And the little girl is devastated. She feels utterly abandoned. He just started teaching her to read and write it meant so much to her.

And then he just walks away. And although he does feel a bang of guilt, perhaps things of being a money she refuses to take it. And he gets on to this boat and sails away and thinks, oh life is so full of parties full of death.

So what is the point of retracing one's steps? And the girl writes, no such philosophy arose in Ratan's mind. A wash with tears she wandered round and round the post of his head. Perhaps her dad a bubble would return, a last for the foolish human heart.

Stewart Brown is founder and president of the National Institute for Play in your Monterey, California. He is co-author of Play How It Shapes the Brain, Opens the Imagination and Integrates the Soul.

Her books include Enchanted Hunters, The Power of Stories in Childhood and the Annotated Brothers Grimm.

So there's one of my access points to what you're describing.

So there's one of my access points to what you're describing. Interesting. And did you learn German by you right there? You know, I had a really interesting way into that. I grew up without any German connection or learning languages but then I went to Brown in the early 80s. Brown had created this exchange program with East Germany.

And you know, it was just incredible. And so I was one of the first semesters of kids who went and at that point it wasn't even very organized and it was really like landing on Mars. I mean for us and them.

So we weren't in East Berlin. We were in a raw stock on the Baltic. We're all stripe and these are people who had never imagined they would even need an American.

Right, right and that that that merger that mingling of kind of operatic beauty I think that's a phrase if used and kind of monstrous terror that combination that juxtaposition is such a such an enduring quality of these stories.

And the most important statement of Eastern Orthodox Christianity ever written was entitled On the Orthodox Faith by John of Damascus protected by the Sultan of Damascus.

I got The Complete Stories with some money for Christmas, my freshman year. I'd gone to Fordham...

He just portrays her so vividly in a few words and one of the ways that it does it is by comparing her to Tom's murder and describing his visits when he edited both of their books to the south.

I got The Complete Stories with some money for Christmas, my freshman year.

I'd gone to Fordham, by the way, a Jesuit college in the Bronx. Started reading the introduction by Robert Chiroux, and just the best introduction to a book I think that I've ever still ever found.

He just portrays her so vividly in a few words, and one of the ways that it does it is by comparing her to Thomas Merton, and describing his visits when he edited both of their books to the south.

He'd go visit Merton this renowned monk at his monastery and they'd talk about Flannery O'Connor, then he'd go to Georgia to visit Flannery O'Connor, the celebrated young southern writer, and they'd talk about Thomas Merton.

He said that they had in common deep faith, great intelligence, and a highly developed sense of comedy.

I'd gone to Fordham and by the way, I've Jesuits in the Bronx. Started reading the introduction by Robert Chirou and just the best introduction to a book that I've ever found.

What was that book? Did you see a complete story as a finalier corner?

He just portrays her so vividly in a few words and one of the ways that it does it is by comparing her to Tom's murder and describing his visits when he edited both of their books to the south.

He'd go visit Martin this renowned monk at his monastery and they talk about finalier corner then he'd go to Georgia to visit finalier corner, the celebrated young southern writer and they'd talk about Tom's murder and he said that they had in common deep faith, great intelligence, and a highly developed sense of comedy.

I got The Complete Stories with some money for Christmas, my freshman year. I'd gone to Fordham...

I'd gone to Fordham...Started reading the introduction by Robert Giroux, and just the best introduction to a book I think that I've ever still ever found.

He just portrays her so vividly in a few words, and one of the ways that it does it is by comparing her to Thomas Merton, and describing his visits when he edited both of their books to the south.

He'd go visit Merton this renowned monk at his monastery and they'd talk about Flannery O'Connor, then he'd go to Georgia to visit Flannery O'Connor, the celebrated young southern writer, and they'd talk about Thomas Merton.

He said that they had in common deep faith, great intelligence, and a highly developed sense of comedy.

much of your writing and certainly this latest book you've written, the God who aids lies. It's really engaging, it's an interjudge-wish conversation that you are aspiring for leading provoking. And it's provocative and critical but from perspective of loving and living deeply inside the tradition.

I believe this is from your new book, the God who it's lies. You wrote one recurring theme as a rabbi was the agonizing confrontation that occurred when religious demands were felt to conflict with deeply held rational commitments and ethical intuitions.

All the apologetics of women being naturally pure, so they don't need the commandments. Women being individuals so they can't become part of a collective. When a whole bunch of lies.

much of your writing and certainly this latest book you've written, the God who aids lies. It's really engaging, it's an interjudge-wish conversation that you are aspiring for leading provoking. And it's provocative and critical but from perspective of loving and living deeply inside the tradition.

And that's Divine Horsemen, the living gods of Haiti by Maya Daren.

And that's Divine Horseman, the living gods of Haiti by Maya Deren.

And she goes through all of this in her book and establishes some very interesting connections.

In a chapter called White Darkness, she explains the process of going into trance and losing contact with this world. And it is a magnificent chapter.

And that's Divine Horseman, the living gods of Haiti by Maya Deren.

And she explains the process of going into trance and losing contact with this world. And it is a magnificent chapter.

She was also initiated into Haitian voodoo. She was also an anthropologist.

You know, another book about Wudu that I think opened this subject up in the scholarly world here was Karen McCarthy Brown's book, Mama Lola about the Wudu priestess in Brooklyn.

The Drew University anthropologist Karen McCarthy Brown helped bring serious study of Haitian voodoo to Western scholars with her 1991 book, Mama Lola about a voodoo priestess in Brooklyn's Haitian community.

Another book about Wudu that I think opened this subject up in the scholarly world here was Karen McCarthy Brown's book, Mama Lola about the Wudu priestess in Brooklyn.

Karen McCarthy Brown helped bring serious study of Haitian voodoo to Western scholars with her 1991 book, Mama Lola about a voodoo priestess in Brooklyn's Haitian community.

And in the cathartic autumn of 2008 she published a sweeping book about the past and future of society and Christianity which was called The Great Emergence.

Well, to first of all I have to be a little honest. Thank you for the accolades but I must confess that there's not much original thinking on my part it was a matter of putting together. The patterns, the insights have all got academic roots way back.

So much of what The Great Emergence as a book really was. Was an assembling if you will of the ideas of other people.

But The Great Emergence that we're going through is analogous more to 2000 years ago when everything shifted.

And in the cathartic autumn of 2008 she published a sweeping book about the past and future of society and Christianity which was called The Great Emergence.

Well, to first of all I have to be a little honest. Thank you for the accolades but I must confess that there's not much original thinking on my part it was a matter of putting together. The patterns, the insights have all got academic roots way back.

So much of what The Great Emergence as a book really was. Was an assembling if you will of the ideas of other people.

But The Great Emergence that we're going through is analogous more to 2000 years ago when everything shifted.

And when the books began to go in the early 90s and the mid-90s and religion suddenly became and you remember this, the best sellers.

Yeah, the heart cover came out in 2000 and the paper back in 2001.

I described sitting with my father on the terrace of my house, my, you know, the family home in Montreal and, um, listening.

In the last chapter I say that my father was not a very religious man but he would read his favorite song which was the 23rd sometimes after dinner and he'd pull the Bible off the shelf and he'd read it with both wisdom and calm and it starts. The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. He make it meet to lie down and green pastures. He'd lead it to me beside the still waters. He restoreeth my soul.

I actually read that in your book as well and it was so struck by it. I mean that's the 23rd song your father was Jewish for Jews and Christians. It's incredibly meaningful.

I mean one of the theses of the book is that yes ideally if we want to find a place of peace we should go there to this beautiful pasture near the still waters but we can do it even if we can't get out of our hospital beds even if we are in the valley of the shadow of death. We can go there in our minds I by reading poems like this and can you but is it I'm assuming that that still depended on us having had those direct experiences in our lives?

if illness and health are nouns then healing is a verb

the placebo effect really is the brain's own healing process

Yeah, the heart cover came out in 2000 and the paper back in 2001.

And in my father was much more basic science oriented, he had a degree in physics and chemistry and I think he, I know that he thought this whole notion of stress was a little bit far out there.

And when I talk about stress, they'd all look stressed in the audience and practically run out of the room but denied that there was such a thing.

I do explore a little bit of this scientific personality and how it affects the acceptance or rejection of scientific ideas.

in Healing Spaces and in the first one and the balance within, um, I do explore a little bit of this scientific personality and how it affects the acceptance or rejection of scientific ideas.

And that's the exciting new frontier for me to ask exactly that question.

Esther Sternberg's unfolding passions are outlined in her new book Healing Spaces, The Science of Place and Wellbeing.

I actually read that in your book as well and it was so struck by it. I mean that's the 23rd song.

When you say labyrinth people would say oh that's a maze and a labyrinth is very different from a maze.

Her latest book is Healing Spaces, the science of place and well-being.