Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Dr. Jory Croson, psychologist, faculty, St. Leo University consultant and author of Operation SOS.

Dr. Jory Crossen psychologist faculty St. Leo University Consultant and Author of Operation S O S.

He's the author of a whole series of books about Jack Solo, who I believe is Irv Brant, specifically Flying Solo, Top of the World and more.

"Going Solo: The Gospel of Luke," and "SOLO JOURNEY: Buddha Knights"

Going Solo: The Gospel of Luke

I haven't seen her, but her car is parked at the Flying J Truck Stop.

Irv, thank you so much for being with us. Police immediately flood the area. They're searching high and low. This has been referred to as a quote, old school kidnapping.

And author of a series of books on Amazon about Jack Solo, one being Flying Solo, Top of the World.

He is now the author of a hit series on Amazon, Jack Solo Mysteries. The last one, Going Solo, The Gospel of Luke.

author of a series of books on Amazon about Jack Solo, the first being Solo shot, curse of the blue stone. "Forever Solo: Knight of the Dragon," "FLYING SOLO: Top of the World", "Solo Journey: Buddha Knights a Jack Solo Mystery Novel" "Going Solo: The Gospel of Luke"

He's the author of American Narcan.

He's not just fighting addiction in our country. He has actually created a mobile addiction unit. He travels all over the country fighting addiction with me right now Dr. William Maroney chief medical examiner out of Michigan author of American Narcan.

Dr. Maroney is a real honor to have you but before I go on and on about you what could cause one of the many things that could cause a chemical taste in one's mouth?

Straight out to Dr. William Maroney, longtime colleague and friend, renowned medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist, opioid treatment expert, and author of a bestseller, American Narcan.

Dr. William Maroney, again, renowned medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist, and author.

He is the author of American Narcan, and he has devoted his life to helping others, specifically in bringing peace and closure on causes of death.

Now, before I introduce everybody to Dr. William Maroney, chief medical examiner joining us out of Bay County, Michigan, author of American Narcan. You can find it at recoverypathwaysllc.com and Maroney puts his money, his time, his effort where his mouth is.

Author: "American Narcan: Naloxone & Heroin-Fentanyl Associated Mortality"

Dr. William Maroney, renowned medical examiner, pathologist, author of American Narcan, and so much more who has dedicated his life to helping other people.

Brian Foley is with me, board certified criminal defense attorney, former chief prosecutor in Harris County, and author of What Prosecutors Don't Tell You.

Brian Foley, a veteran trial lawyer and author of What Prosecutors Don't Tell You.

And let me go straight out to high-profile lawyer Brian Foley former chief prosecutor in Houston and author of What Prosecutors Don't Tell You that's upcoming.

Now see that's a good book an illustrated history of the insanity defense.

I could go I could read that all night long and ill hint hint for Christmas an illustrated history of the insanity defense.

you're hearing Dr. Michelle Joy forensic clinical academic psychiatrist and author of an illustrated history of the insanity defense

Wow, he really wrote the book.

and the criminal investigative function, a guide for new investigators.

Rivers should really read Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley, which is all about psychedelic drug trips and mystical interpretations.

read Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley, which is all about psychedelic drug trips and mystical interpretations.

He should really read Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley, which is all about psychedelic drug trips and mystical interpretations.

Rivers should really read Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley.

Rivers should really read Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley

Rivers should really read Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley which is all about psychedelic drug trips and mystical interpretations.

author of The New Rules of Attachment, and another bestseller, Stop Self-Sabotage.

Dr. Judy Ho, clinical forensic neuropsychologist, author of The New Rules of Attachment, and another bestseller, Stop Self-Sabotage.

Dr. Judy Ho is joining us, clinical forensic neuropsychologist, author of The New Rules of Attachment and another bestseller, Stop SelfSabotage.

To renowned clinical and forensic neuropsychologist, author of The New Rules of Attachment and Stop Self-Sabotage, Dr. Judy Ho.

Dr. Judy Ho joining me, clinical and forensic neuropsychologist, author of the new rules of attachment and Stop Self-Sabotage at drjudyho.com.

author of The New Rules of Attachment, and another bestseller, Stop Self-Sabotage.

Joining NANCY TODAY: Dr. Heidi Green - Clinical Psychologist, Trauma specialist, Author: 'The Path to Self-Love and World Domination,

Dr. Heidi Green joining me, clinical psychologist, trauma specialist, author of The Path to Self, Love, and World Domination.

DrHeidiGreen.com.

You know, to Dr. Heidi Green joining me, clinical psychologist, trauma specialist, author of The Path to Self-Love and World Domination, drheidigreen.com.

Dr. Heidi Green clinical psychologist trauma specialist author of The Path to Self-Love and World Domination

author of The Path to Self-Love and World Domination

Author of STOP HIM FROM KILLING THEM.

I write in my book, Don't Be a Victim.

Paul Szych - former Police Commander (Albuquerque, NM), APD Domestic Violence and Stalking Unit; Author: "Stop Him From KillingThem;"

Paul Zeit with me, a former police commander specializing in domestic violence and the stalking unit. The author of ... STOP HIM FROM KILLING THEM.

Joining us right now, special guest Tracy Brown, body language expert, author of How to Detect Lies, Fraud and Identity Theft. And you can find her at Body Language Trainer dot com.

And I also noticed that one of his assistants came out and gave him a box of hankies. And he went, no, I don't need that. Because there didn't seem to be any actual tears, just the sounds.

Now, what's more important is when I profile people, because I listen closely and I want to understand, what does this person want me to know about them the most?

And what he's doing throughout this whole eulogy is selling how much he has tried to please her over their life together. And also what a good guy he is. So this is, the subtext of this is more of a sales pitch about what a great person he is.

And this is a quote, everyone knew how beautiful she was on the outside, only a spouse. Okay, so he didn't say him. He said a spouse that's distancing. Only a spouse knows how beautiful that person is. That person again distances, how beautiful that person is on the inside.

And what's missing, because the other thing that I do when I profile people is I go, okay, what's missing here? What's missing are the typical things that you would hear in a marriage. In a eulogy from a husband, right? Which is how much he misses her, how shocked he is. Because what he says is it hasn't hit me. He says it hasn't hit me. He says it two to three times in there. And so we don't, he's not revealing any emotional attachment to what happened.

Straight out to special guest joining us Tracy Brown, author of How to Detect Lies Fraud and Identity Theft. Tracy Brown at BodyLanguageTrainer.com.

I'm going to take a quick second to share with you the importance of, you know, even his colleague in his understudies where the kid was saying, look, you know, you got to stop. You know, you got to be serious for a minute. I got to take your picture and he was able to, you know, in a quick second just flip that switch and pose for those photographs.

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Tracy Brown body language expert in author of how to detect lies fraud and identity theft what do you make a co-burger's behavior in court well i thought there was really a lot to see uh... and let's let's start with how he walked in and you all mentioned his his gaze what i think which which is true which let me there was a couple clues that said he was emotionally unaffected by the proceedings for one did not show emotion on his face but here's here's what's more interesting is that he did not protect himself like we would normally see someone walk into the courtroom so his his arms are out into the side he was making himself a little bit bigger now some of that had to do with him wearing what i think was a bulletproof vest but his arms were were hanging down to his side usually we'd see someone protect themselves uh... in some kind of way with arms in front of them at least a little bit so excuse me so that this lets me know okay wait a minute this guy doesn't think he has anything to protect himself from now beyond that he does not when he's sitting there he does not show any adapters or pacifiers and what what what those boil down to are small little movement that really stress small little repetitive movement right so he didn't put his hand in his forehead he didn't lean on his elbows he didn't smooth down his pants right those kind of things he didn't run his hands through his hair none of that i have never seen anyone without these kinds of movement in what's such what you think would be such a pressure filled situation which let me know he does not emotionally connect to the pressure around him but just not protecting himself not letting off any anxiety at all now um... it we hinted at at some of this earlier i think uh... from the way that he actually didn't move his head because he was very straight on the whole time it tells me he's a really analytical linear figure in my experience that's what we see and he doesn't do emotions well uh... so i thought that was not necessarily uncharacteristic of someone who likely been involved in this kind of situation now here's what's most interesting is that we didn't see any wrinkles in his forehead and our forehead is part of us that the hardest to control it's almost impossible to do so that's in what we see is stress mark stress lines across the forehead if he was he he didn't show a drop of stress at all about anything the only time i've seen anything like that was uh... similar was with lee harvey oswald who killed kennedy he didn't show any stress when he uh... was on camera either so um... his uh... blink rate was super slow okay so that says okay wait a minute there may be something going on there or as far as stress goes inside that he's trying to hold back or he um... he he could be staring out at what's going on trying to emotionally disconnect from the situation but i don't think there's a lot of connection there to start with that he sounds fully aware i think he just wasn't able like mentally to connect to the gravity of what's gone on you know what i compare it to and uh... i want everybody to jump in karen chris bill uh... nicole and dr kindle crowns coming right back to you he would not look at the victims families sitting in the courtroom some of them anyway and i remember in my own experience coming down off the witness stand in my fiance's murder trial and i looked at the defense attorneys and they all look down at the defendant and he looked down i find that significant what about a chris mcdonough you've seen plenty of homicide defendants nancy so my take on on him in relationship to that is uh... again remember he wore him the perpetrator here warm uh... and it was just enough to wear uh... the eyewitness could only see partial pieces of that individuals identity in this case where he walks into that courtroom does not make eye contact with anybody in relationship to you know who the victims are here that again uh... i read that as you know whether mine i i control the whole scenario here i control that before it happened i controlled it when it happened and now we can call it after it happened and so by him not acknowledging it's it's almost remember these guys and the dot can break into this much deeper these guys do these things at night because deep down inside it's this idea that says i am nothing joe remember if you pull that mask off everybody goes that's the guy and you know what that has really weird and he's been weird blah blah blah and you go back and look in their history and sure enough they were and you we start seeing evidence of that just on with with this guy you know the tender dates and we can keep going on but what he's doing there is telling that family they belong to me i'm i'm in control here and i'm not gonna let you know i'm just thinking through everything that happened bill d l e joining me from a fb i investigator forensic photography insecurity expert did you notice he trained his eyes on his lawyer and the defense table and would not look at the victims families at all yeah absolutely that's and i what they were getting around here to is that he's emotionally vacant and even uh... even during the car stops we saw the the body cam footage and all the way through he just had this kind of vacant look on his face but i think it actually goes a bit more deeper than that i think as he's standing there and not willing to say uh... that put a photo please not guilty he's already thinking down the road is that how he's going to try to unravel the prosecution's uh... uh... purpose of going forward right at forensic evidence i think he's looking already and i imagine what we can see him be very active with his attorney pull apart he's by peace the forensic evidence whether it's change a custody like we saw in the oj simpson trial or whether it's you know through questionable laboratory techniques you can try to suppress as much as he can i think that's where he already is i think he's already down the road trying to outsmart the court outsmart the prosecution to dr kindle crowns chief medical examiner terent county that's for worth lecturer university texas austin tc u medical school dr kindle crowns the one thing he did not want to hear about at all is what happened to these victims before close today i don't want our discussion to be just about strategy technique could you please explain what happened to these four victims so all the individuals were stabbed multiple times with a k bar type night and that's the type nice to see marine corps issued so it's a relatively large kind of uh... hunting night but used for hand-to-hand combat uh... they were all stab multiple times uh... about their bodies are large evidently larger gaping wounds so there's uh... probably a fair amount of movement in the stab wounds as well so i would think that uh... they they each individually were probably over stab more than one because usually in the situation that's hard to uh... just have a a person one time and have them drop dead like happens with a gunshot wound so usually the individuals are stabbed multiple times and there's the fence of wounds as they're trying to stop you from stabbing them and all they have to defend themselves as their arms and hands so often there's mutilating injuries of the hands were even fingers are uh... hacked off because you're grabbing at the night trying to stop it so uh... i would assume that these individuals have those wounds as well they're probably as a group all of them have multiple stab wounds with a combination of defensive type injuries and then mutilating injuries as well what did you mean when you said movement within the stab wounds so there's a couple things as you know you're not going to stand there and be stabbed right you're gonna try and get away from them uh... pull away when the knife enters your body it's painful so you'll twist and turn and then that can cause a change in the shape of the wound itself and also uh... sometimes with individuals when they stab you they will actually put the knife in and then pull it as hard as they can in one direction or another to make the injury even more devastating and make the wound bigger i'm just thinking back to the night that these four students were murdered stabbed over and over and over the way our medical examiner dr kindle crowns is describing and then this guy comes in to court and refuses to enter a plea we wait as justice involves goodbye for you news fast whether it's the latest developments in a high-profile case or urgent alerts about missing persons crime alert hourly update delivers the news you need to know as it happens i missy grace and with our team of investigative reporters and experts we bring you the top crime headlines you need to know every hour on the hour listen to crime alert hourly update on the i hard radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

It's the way to isolate and control your victims.

We've heard this in a million different ways.

Dr. Joni Johnson a forensic psychologist and investigator and high profile trial lawyer out of the Jacksonville jurisdiction. Dale Carson, why is he here? He is also a former FBI agent.

And I love this book. His book is Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI agent's manual for behavior prediction.

Dr. Joni Johnson is with us, a very well known forensic psychologist and private investigator... and she's the author of Serial Killers 101 Questions True Crime Fans Ask.

She is the author of Serial Killers 101 Questions, True Crime Fans Ask. Plus more.

But first, I want to go to a woman I've been dying to talk to, Rebecca Rosenberg with Fox News Digital. She's a crime reporter and author of a fantastic book, At Any Cost.

Joining us, Rebecca Rosenberg, Fox News, digital investigative reporter, author of At Any Cost. And you can find her at rebeccafayreosenberg.com.

Rebecca Rosenberg jump in wasn't that tire in the middle of the road?

Back to Rebecca Rosenberg, Fox News digital investigative crime reporter, what happens now?

She is a crime reporter and author of a fantastic book At Any Cost

She's a crime reporter and author of a fantastic book, At Any Cost.

At Any Cost. Rebecca, who is this woman?

Hey, Cheryl, remember when I wrote my first book? It was Objection and I wrote one chapter about blood mining, about how people like sell autopsy reports and autopsy photos and just horrible things associated with murder.

By the time I looked all that up, I actually got rid of the laptop. It's like a $300 laptop because I felt that it was just tainted with all the disgusting searches I had to run to write that book.

Hey, Cheryl, remember when I wrote my first book? It was Objection and I wrote one chapter about blood mining, about how people sell autopsy reports and autopsy photos and just horrible things associated with murder.

By the time I looked all that up, I actually got rid of the laptop. It was like a $300 laptop because I felt that it was just tainted with all the disgusting searches I had to run to write that book.

I remember years ago on what was it was my very first book. It was called Objection. And I wrote a chapter on called Blood Money.

the next one should be out next year it's called FOREVER SOLO Societist Dragon Easter, which is Latin for Order of the Dragon and this one you're gonna love because it's super, super, super great.

like in First of the Blue Stone, the origins of the Hope Diamond. Well in FOREVER SOLO I give you a watch of the Dracula family.

Author: "FOREVER SOLO: Knight of the Dragon" Twitter: @JackSoloAuthor

Irv Brandt, former senior inspector at the U.S. Marshal Service ... author of a series of mysteries on Amazon, The Jack Solos. His most recent FOREVER SOLO, Night of the Dragon.

author of a series of books on Amazon about Jack Solo, the first being Solo shot, curse of the blue stone. "FOREVER SOLO: Knight of the Dragon," "FLYING SOLO: Top of the World", "Solo Journey: Buddha Knights a Jack Solo Mystery Novel" "Going Solo: The Gospel of Luke"

He is author of a brand new book and it is on Amazon right now and it's selling out. It's great. I read it. It Started with a Whisper.

It Started with a Whisper, which you are right. It's an amazing book.

You know, Rob Schuter, I'm going to put you under the microscope right now and do a lightning round... author of a brand new book, It Started with a Whisper, which is a big hit on Amazon now.

author of a brand new book. And it's amazing. It's on Amazon titled, It Started with a Whisper.

Joining us tonight is a PR guru, Rob Schuter, author of a brand new book that's climbing the charts on Amazon. It Started with a Whisper.

Rob Shooter, guru to the stars and author of a brand new book. It Started with a Whisper.

That's a mouthful. You're going to have to work with that title.

You can find him at mattmangino.com.

Joining right now, high profile defense attorney Matthew Mangino, former prosecutor and author of The Executioner's Toll Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words of Executed People, 46 of them in the US.

Author of The Executioner's Toll, The Crimes Arrest Trials Appeals Last Meals and Final Words of 46 Person Executions of 46 Persons in the US. Wow, great book, Matthew.

The Satanic Verses, considered blasphemous by some Muslims.

Rushdie, who became the target of a fatwa issued in 1989 by Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini over his novel The Satanic Verses, spent years in hiding.

A court has decided that a New Jersey man accused of stabbing Salman Rushdie, author of this satanic verses, may obtain information about Rushdie's planned memoir about the incident prior to going on trial.

Well in my case, I was a 15 year old neighbor in the same apartment complex as the manager and he was he also happened to be a 32 year old porn actor Who immediately saw me and started grooming me and that's the process for a lot of these youth is that you start you get groomed

He saw that I wasn't being protected by my father. My father was disabled My father was a drug user and so he stepped in and kind of took the place of my dad in a way that I built trust and

Then slowly, but surely he groomed me into being his Possession and very soon after that ended up selling me over and over again in multiple different ways How old were you dog when this happened?

And I would like to point out too that it's really difficult for people to see a teenager 14 15 16 years old as a child Still and very clearly after years of therapy and not blaming myself for my own abuse and Trafficking experience. I was I

Finally understood that yes, I was the child. He was a 32 year old experienced in seduction pornstar who Took it who could have had anybody he wanted but what he did was he laid his eyes on me a 15 year old girl

Grooming is recruitment under the umbrella of what is human trafficking.

And luring somebody in on their vulnerabilities based off of needs for love and attention, whatever that is because they didn't have it at home is really a classic form of recruitment into where the victim is then now kept in by force, fraud and coercion.

I went through that with John Holmes, I went through that with almost six years of being hidden, being beaten, being addicted to drugs, being forced into prostitution, being forced into crime. I did all of that.

I know that trauma is a life sentence so I feel you and I hear you on that on a big level and I do care about these women and I understand what they are going through.

What he is doing, I agree with you 100% is absolutely egregious that he is just throwing it in people's faces.

It is even more insulting to survivors and the victims who are still out and are scared to death to speak up. I want to speak for them and I do speak for them. I lived that.

I know exactly what it feels like. You don't know you are a victim when you are coming out of that. You have been brainwashed and to believe in that you did it to yourself if you consented to all of that.