Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

if you've ever seen A Christmas Carol, you know, Charles Dickens, when Marley's ghost first appears in several iterations of the play and the teleplay and that sort of thing, Marley has a kerchief tied around his head.

Well, that's one of the things that they used to do because if you didn't, the body would develop what's referred to as the osan. The mouth looks like an O okay, and that's because the jaw opens and then it freezes and certainly during Victorian times that was considered improper.

And then in Goodfellas, where, you know, he got Henry Hill after his girlfriend, future wife has been assaulted. Yeah. He was a 38 caliber snub nose that he had. And he he used it almost like in that instance, he used it almost like brass knuckles. Right. Is that what we're talking about with a pistol?

That was a revolver that Henry Hill, that the character of Henry Hill was wielding at that point in time.

that's actually from Act 3, Scene 2 of King Lear.

But before I go to her, I want to go out to Matt Murphy, high profile lawyer, former Orange County homicide prosecutor, ABC legal analyst and author of The Book of Murder.

Before his death, Simpson paid just $133,000 on the $33.5 million he owed the families of Ron and Nicole. While Simpson was forced to auction his Heisman Trophy for about $250,000 and turn over the rights to video game royalties and the unpublished book, If I Did It, the former Hall of Famer skirted payments by moving out to Nevada and Florida.

Joining me is Dr. Leslie Dobson clinical forensic psychologist at drlesleydobson.com her most recent book The Friend Cleanse how to set boundaries with energy vampires hmm dr. Leslie thank you for being with us

You know, when I think of cool mom, I think of the Lindsay Lohan movie. One of her greats. Mean Girls, that was the name of it.

And you have the cool mom who tried to be one of the teens and encouraged them to misbehave.

Let me point to the Iliad and The Odyssey by Homer.

But what really reached me was Lee Strobel's book, The Case for Christ.

My favorite so far, The Case for Christ.

Lee Strobel, author of The Case for Christ.

Okay, I'll address that later. But Dr. Dubrow, I want to get to your main line of work, and that is plastic surgery. You are renowned. Are you supposed to perform that many? First of all, I don't even know what the assistant was saying because all I can hear is in the background, cardiac arrest, cardiac arrest. That's what got my attention. But she was spouting off a lot of procedures. Is a patient supposed to have all that done at once?

Dr. Jeff, I can't help but project a nefarious nature to this.

Dr. Jeff, I can't help but project a nefarious nature to this. Or is it true that some parents, you know, they hand the baby off to an aunt or a cousin and kind of just leave it there? And so I naturally attach something nefarious to not mentioning your child hasn't been seen.

But I guess there could be an innocent explanation, not in my world, but maybe in their world.

Dr. Michelle Dupree joining us, recognized forensic pathologist who shot to fame during the Alex Murdoch double murder trial, medical examiner, former detective, author of Money, Mischief and Murder, the Murdoch saga, the rest of the story. But for my purposes, she is also the author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide and Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide. She literally wrote the book.

Dr. Dupree, you and I have investigated and covered a lot of homicide cases. And to me, it's very significant that the scene was staged. It may be Maya's death. What do I mean by that? Anytime you move a body, touch a body, change a scene in any way, you have staged a scene. You may make the murder or the homicide look like a suicide. You may place a gun in the victim's hand. You may cover up the victim with a blanket. I've seen a case where a mother was shot dead and the killer put a wicker trash can over her head. I've seen bodies covered in leaves.

I've seen faces covered, just all sorts of staging. And this is staged. The baby is wrapped, as you heard Mitch Carter state, in a baby blanket and then in plastic and then hidden under debris. That tells me the killer knows the baby intimately. I want to hear what you have to say.

Absolutely, Nancy. This is what we often call forensic countermeasures, meaning that it is an attempt to cover up basically the crime. So they knew that this had happened. They knew that it was wrong. And they're trying to cover it up by wrapping the baby probably in a favorite blanket and then putting it in a plastic bag.

Dr. Dupree, I don't know how you would, since the baby wasn't reported missing for so long, this beautiful baby Maya with her light brown hair and her green eyes and her world before her, because she wasn't reported missing for so long, how can we tell when she was killed?

Joining me, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a hit new series podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.

Joining me now in all-star lineup, Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family attorney, Vincent Hill, cop turned PI, author of Playbook to a Murder, Dr. Jolie Silva, clinical forensic psychologist, Dr. Michelle Dupree, South Carolina medical examiner and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Robin Walensky, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter and author of Beautiful Life, the CSI behind the Casey Anthony trial on Amazon.

Robin Walensky, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, no offense to penises whatsoever. Not taking a position on that. Robin, please help me understand. What is this man doing at what 730, 745 AM? He's just left Chick-fil-A closed on Sunday and he's sexting pictures of his penis and leaves his child in the car to die of hyperthermia.

Yeah, the bottom line is he looked up a video and it's a man sitting in the front seat of a car talking about how long it would take a dog to die in a hot car with the windows closed in the summer. And the man in the video actually has one of those big circle thermometers, you know, where you can see the temperature that people have outside in their garden. And he holds up a big thermometer and it shows 92 degrees and how hot it would be and how long it would take your pet to die.

Just got Morgan joining me, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a hit series, Body Bags Podcast.

"Becoming UNSILENCED: Surviving and Fighting the Troubled Teen Industry";

I was woken up around 2 a.m. by these two strangers. They said, you're coming with us and we can do this the easy way or the hard way. And they indicated that the hard way was going to be in handcuffs.

So I listened and they basically made me undress in front of them, go to the bathroom, threw me into the back of an SUV, and we were off to LAX and off to my first program.

They took me to this room filled with five or six staff in there. I had to remove all my clothes. They had to thoroughly examine my body. They asked me to do very strange things. While I was naked, they asked me to bend over, touch my toes. I had to spread everything apart. I was told to squat and to cough. And they had me do that repeatedly for a few minutes while the staff members laughed and made jokes.

And I'm sure that you have an opinion on what has happened to this 12-year-old boy. And what do you make of Leanne Roberts' description? I've likely talked to over 100 survivors from Trails Carolina. And you take Leanne's experience and you copy and paste it to all the others. And it doesn't matter what year they went, they're really experiencing all the same things.

Author of Blood Beneath My Feet. Host of Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. It's a hit podcast. I could go on and on and on.

In my opinion, she was deceased when she went into that car, Nancy.

So he technically has not been spotted. There was a Cadillac STX with an Idaho license plate on its way to Mexico at the border and Nadia's car and Aaron's vehicle stayed in Pullman. There have been reports that this vehicle might be tied to Aaron's father, but that is not yet confirmed. It is just tied to a quote family member.

Ong's camping gear and Montana map book purchases led Pullman PD to believe that's where Ong was heading, but authorities now say Ong is in Mexico with his fiancee and daughter.