How to Detect Lies, Fraud and Identity Theft Field Guide

Joining us right now, special guest Tracy Brown, body language expert, author of How to Detect Lies, Fraud and Identity Theft. And you can find her at Body Language Trainer dot com.

And I also noticed that one of his assistants came out and gave him a box of hankies. And he went, no, I don't need that. Because there didn't seem to be any actual tears, just the sounds.

Now, what's more important is when I profile people, because I listen closely and I want to understand, what does this person want me to know about them the most?

And what he's doing throughout this whole eulogy is selling how much he has tried to please her over their life together. And also what a good guy he is. So this is, the subtext of this is more of a sales pitch about what a great person he is.

And this is a quote, everyone knew how beautiful she was on the outside, only a spouse. Okay, so he didn't say him. He said a spouse that's distancing. Only a spouse knows how beautiful that person is. That person again distances, how beautiful that person is on the inside.

And what's missing, because the other thing that I do when I profile people is I go, okay, what's missing here? What's missing are the typical things that you would hear in a marriage. In a eulogy from a husband, right? Which is how much he misses her, how shocked he is. Because what he says is it hasn't hit me. He says it hasn't hit me. He says it two to three times in there. And so we don't, he's not revealing any emotional attachment to what happened.

Straight out to special guest joining us Tracy Brown, author of How to Detect Lies Fraud and Identity Theft. Tracy Brown at BodyLanguageTrainer.com.

I'm going to take a quick second to share with you the importance of, you know, even his colleague in his understudies where the kid was saying, look, you know, you got to stop. You know, you got to be serious for a minute. I got to take your picture and he was able to, you know, in a quick second just flip that switch and pose for those photographs.

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Tracy Brown body language expert in author of how to detect lies fraud and identity theft what do you make a co-burger's behavior in court well i thought there was really a lot to see uh... and let's let's start with how he walked in and you all mentioned his his gaze what i think which which is true which let me there was a couple clues that said he was emotionally unaffected by the proceedings for one did not show emotion on his face but here's here's what's more interesting is that he did not protect himself like we would normally see someone walk into the courtroom so his his arms are out into the side he was making himself a little bit bigger now some of that had to do with him wearing what i think was a bulletproof vest but his arms were were hanging down to his side usually we'd see someone protect themselves uh... in some kind of way with arms in front of them at least a little bit so excuse me so that this lets me know okay wait a minute this guy doesn't think he has anything to protect himself from now beyond that he does not when he's sitting there he does not show any adapters or pacifiers and what what what those boil down to are small little movement that really stress small little repetitive movement right so he didn't put his hand in his forehead he didn't lean on his elbows he didn't smooth down his pants right those kind of things he didn't run his hands through his hair none of that i have never seen anyone without these kinds of movement in what's such what you think would be such a pressure filled situation which let me know he does not emotionally connect to the pressure around him but just not protecting himself not letting off any anxiety at all now um... it we hinted at at some of this earlier i think uh... from the way that he actually didn't move his head because he was very straight on the whole time it tells me he's a really analytical linear figure in my experience that's what we see and he doesn't do emotions well uh... so i thought that was not necessarily uncharacteristic of someone who likely been involved in this kind of situation now here's what's most interesting is that we didn't see any wrinkles in his forehead and our forehead is part of us that the hardest to control it's almost impossible to do so that's in what we see is stress mark stress lines across the forehead if he was he he didn't show a drop of stress at all about anything the only time i've seen anything like that was uh... similar was with lee harvey oswald who killed kennedy he didn't show any stress when he uh... was on camera either so um... his uh... blink rate was super slow okay so that says okay wait a minute there may be something going on there or as far as stress goes inside that he's trying to hold back or he um... he he could be staring out at what's going on trying to emotionally disconnect from the situation but i don't think there's a lot of connection there to start with that he sounds fully aware i think he just wasn't able like mentally to connect to the gravity of what's gone on you know what i compare it to and uh... i want everybody to jump in karen chris bill uh... nicole and dr kindle crowns coming right back to you he would not look at the victims families sitting in the courtroom some of them anyway and i remember in my own experience coming down off the witness stand in my fiance's murder trial and i looked at the defense attorneys and they all look down at the defendant and he looked down i find that significant what about a chris mcdonough you've seen plenty of homicide defendants nancy so my take on on him in relationship to that is uh... again remember he wore him the perpetrator here warm uh... and it was just enough to wear uh... the eyewitness could only see partial pieces of that individuals identity in this case where he walks into that courtroom does not make eye contact with anybody in relationship to you know who the victims are here that again uh... i read that as you know whether mine i i control the whole scenario here i control that before it happened i controlled it when it happened and now we can call it after it happened and so by him not acknowledging it's it's almost remember these guys and the dot can break into this much deeper these guys do these things at night because deep down inside it's this idea that says i am nothing joe remember if you pull that mask off everybody goes that's the guy and you know what that has really weird and he's been weird blah blah blah and you go back and look in their history and sure enough they were and you we start seeing evidence of that just on with with this guy you know the tender dates and we can keep going on but what he's doing there is telling that family they belong to me i'm i'm in control here and i'm not gonna let you know i'm just thinking through everything that happened bill d l e joining me from a fb i investigator forensic photography insecurity expert did you notice he trained his eyes on his lawyer and the defense table and would not look at the victims families at all yeah absolutely that's and i what they were getting around here to is that he's emotionally vacant and even uh... even during the car stops we saw the the body cam footage and all the way through he just had this kind of vacant look on his face but i think it actually goes a bit more deeper than that i think as he's standing there and not willing to say uh... that put a photo please not guilty he's already thinking down the road is that how he's going to try to unravel the prosecution's uh... uh... purpose of going forward right at forensic evidence i think he's looking already and i imagine what we can see him be very active with his attorney pull apart he's by peace the forensic evidence whether it's change a custody like we saw in the oj simpson trial or whether it's you know through questionable laboratory techniques you can try to suppress as much as he can i think that's where he already is i think he's already down the road trying to outsmart the court outsmart the prosecution to dr kindle crowns chief medical examiner terent county that's for worth lecturer university texas austin tc u medical school dr kindle crowns the one thing he did not want to hear about at all is what happened to these victims before close today i don't want our discussion to be just about strategy technique could you please explain what happened to these four victims so all the individuals were stabbed multiple times with a k bar type night and that's the type nice to see marine corps issued so it's a relatively large kind of uh... hunting night but used for hand-to-hand combat uh... they were all stab multiple times uh... about their bodies are large evidently larger gaping wounds so there's uh... probably a fair amount of movement in the stab wounds as well so i would think that uh... they they each individually were probably over stab more than one because usually in the situation that's hard to uh... just have a a person one time and have them drop dead like happens with a gunshot wound so usually the individuals are stabbed multiple times and there's the fence of wounds as they're trying to stop you from stabbing them and all they have to defend themselves as their arms and hands so often there's mutilating injuries of the hands were even fingers are uh... hacked off because you're grabbing at the night trying to stop it so uh... i would assume that these individuals have those wounds as well they're probably as a group all of them have multiple stab wounds with a combination of defensive type injuries and then mutilating injuries as well what did you mean when you said movement within the stab wounds so there's a couple things as you know you're not going to stand there and be stabbed right you're gonna try and get away from them uh... pull away when the knife enters your body it's painful so you'll twist and turn and then that can cause a change in the shape of the wound itself and also uh... sometimes with individuals when they stab you they will actually put the knife in and then pull it as hard as they can in one direction or another to make the injury even more devastating and make the wound bigger i'm just thinking back to the night that these four students were murdered stabbed over and over and over the way our medical examiner dr kindle crowns is describing and then this guy comes in to court and refuses to enter a plea we wait as justice involves goodbye for you news fast whether it's the latest developments in a high-profile case or urgent alerts about missing persons crime alert hourly update delivers the news you need to know as it happens i missy grace and with our team of investigative reporters and experts we bring you the top crime headlines you need to know every hour on the hour listen to crime alert hourly update on the i hard radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts