Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend

I read Faulkner and Flannery O'Connor.

This motherfucker was like 25 cases a day you have to have read and analyzed.

My dad sent me Bob's record and he also sent me to 2000 Year Old Man when I was in college, I think in 1960.

The book came out in 1946, same year my mother was born.

And it revolutionized...

Dr. Spock was the child- Child care guru.

There's a great quote by a guy who wrote a profile in Esquire in like 86 when Spock died in 98.

And he was like, this had such a profound influence in such a quiet way because it was these articles that he was writing in women's magazines that were lying around hair salons and nothing else has affected so quickly and so vastly how the world regards babies and handles them and raises kids.

And you know what? We will have some good time. My guest today is a humorist and bestselling author whose latest book, Happy Go Lucky is out now.

You've got a terrific new book and I'm going to mention it. It's called Happy Go Lucky.

I do encourage everyone listening to get this book because it's really terrific.

Please go out and find this book. Look at the cover.

When you were talking about gifts earlier, it made me think, it used to be when you went on a book tour, every bookstore would say, can we give you a book? And now they say, we've got something for you.

If you go back to my great heroes, actually Richard Feynman, who's one of the great physicists who won a Nobel Prize and Oppenheimer, actually, I've got more and more interested in Oppenheimer, fascinating character, ran the scientific bit of the Manhattan project.

So he was responsible for the bomb. In the fifties, they both reflected, there's a wonderful essay by Feynman called The Value of Science, which is on the web. You can just look it up.

If you type Feynman, The Value of Science, you'll get it.

And ultimately he's worried that the knowledge that we have acquired, science has given us the knowledge our civilization has exceeds our wisdom.

So we have too much power for our morality and our wisdom and our intellect can't deal with the power that we have.

You're in the canon!

And they named a spaceport after my wife and me called Lund Gourley

No, this is published!

Published how? What do you mean it's published?

Published on the press

my friend wrote a graphic novel called Soul Kiss and I'm a character and someone kisses me I die and I get flushed down the toilet

I'm like, huh, I never buy those. Then I see another one. Then I see all these different spy novels.

Then I start to see all these books on how to drive a car. And I'm like, definitely didn't buy that. And then it's like how to drive a stick shift like a boss. How to drive a truck, how to drive this, how to drive that. I'm like, I didn't buy any of these books.

Then I start to see how to talk to ladies with confidence.

So there's one of the books is The Manual to Manhood, how to cook the perfect steak, change a tire, impress.

And then there's another one, forbidden and explicit erotica for adults.

Which I think I've heard about, which is some strategy where if you hit on 100 women, seven will at least say yes, or at least they'll talk to you for more than a second. It's about quantity. It's about quantity of times that you, and I'm reading, and then it gets into mixed martial arts.

And then there's stuff like using the power of the mind and I call you up and I go, what is this?

There's crypto stuff in there.

She also has a new memoir, Hello Molly, out now. This book is terrific by the way.

I'm very excited to chat with her today. Molly Shannon, welcome. First of all, I adore you. You know that.

I'm happy about that. And I'm also thrilled about a million different things that you've been doing on television.

And there's some real darkness, but you tell it without pity. You're someone who's just saying, hey, here's what happened.

I really want to encourage people to get it. Hello Molly, a memoir, because you are very honest about the scams you pulled in your life.

And I actually wrote a book called I Don't Know What You Know Me From. You remember this? Yes. Confessions of a Co-Star.

Her latest children's book, Just Help, How to Build a Better World is out now and I'm delighted.

And so this is very personal for you. Your mom is part of the book and a young you is part of the book.

Well, I'm hoping Just Help shows children the power they have to change the world.

I think what's - first of all, I want to - the illustrations by the way, it's by Angela Dominguez. She's wonderful.

I'm really happy that you continue to write these books, Just Help, How to Build a Better World.

So then when it was a very hostile experience watching your show because when I would watch it back I would be hovering over the TV never laying down and watching it at a moment's notice because I shared a room with my two brothers Hole and Bus and so anytime they came in I would have to change it really fast and turn it off like oh that tape just ended so anytime I'd watch your show I'd be in a full crouch over just hovering at a moment's notice ready to turn it off every second meant so much but you showed me one it was really funny because it's this woman and she's teaching a class you know and all of a sudden you see and then it's me and I think I don't know 1997 yeah yeah I think some bit was that it cut out was Lincoln it was like yeah Dominatrix Lincoln but yeah so the woman's teaching her begrudging science class and she was very impressed by herself that's another funny thing that was on the tape is that she anytime she would do a very gentle science experiment of just make vapor in a room she would always give a face like did it nailed it nailed it I just dropped Alka-Seltzer into a water into water and look what I did yeah like it was witchcraft those tapes would cut out so I sent the tapes back it's a subscription model they said you taped and it was just your show and you got me doing Dominatrix Lincoln yeah cut into this tape so there's people that say your show meant a lot to me you are in my head all of TV Bob Saget was the richest person in the world in my head as a kid he was just passing out 10 grand that was our ticket out and then you were show business everything I found out about movies references I know today was through your lens oh wow this really is an impoverished childhood who knows the true meaning of poverty poverty means you learn everything from Conan's show yeah you know it's funny because you have one of the slogans that you bring up and again the special explains it all really well but you talk in your special about how crazy beats scary I'm sort of paraphrasing it a little no but that is that's fair and in a real way did come around to forgiveness just in setting up the show right I think one I can't watch the special I can't watch any early stuff because it just seems like someone that's very angry still lashing out but in setting up a full one hour show when you gave me that opportunity I think it was 2019 from there just having to write full characters where it's not just a villain that's being a dick in a vacuum for no reason and you start to write and so I started to write towards my mom trying to dig of why these things happened and then inadvertently came around to absolute forgiveness where it's like oh yeah okay I get what she was going through as I make my own mistakes as an adult that's not saying that what she did was right or anyone should do that or that was okay but it is genuine forgiveness came from selfishly just trying to make a full show yeah so that was that was huge to answer your first question about how she felt about it I was worried about that so what I did because I edited the special I had control of the footage is I I did a personal screening for her because I don't want you to be embarrassed ever because you feel like the whole world's seeing it and you have no control so before it ever aired I was very busy but took a day out to just go see her and explain what this meant to me what this story's about and then screened it for just her and and she loved it she loved it yeah it was vindication for her because it's not someone that's angry and that took just age that took talking to you in Denver I don't know if you remember we had a very important conversation that was changed a good portion of my life about just self-worth and selling myself short on stage as a defense mechanism right to be like I'll make fun of me that way if you don't like me I'm smarter than you because I already said that I'm a piece of shit that was my defense mechanism for a long time which is I'll get out in front of everybody and make fun of me before you get a chance to which is one of the oldest tricks in the book and then you get really good at it and it works and that becomes problematic because if you get really good at it and people like it and you realize you're completely selling yourself short and eventually kind of just lying about yourself I have never been more embarrassed and more exposed than that show so we were doing a show in Denver and it was a huge crowd so when I come out I think the opening line that gets a laugh is oh I'm the comedian that you go to the bathroom during no one knows who I am at least like Ron Funches Taylor Thomas these people had specials out I was completely unknown at least to my mind and it gets a laugh but you saw what was behind that and it's like oh I know what you're doing it's a defense thing and I would have never I would have never changed that behavior unless you said that because it still gets a laugh so it's like yeah keep it and I'm protecting myself it's like the Eight mile thing of like he would make fun of himself so by the time it was the other guys turned to rap battle they had nothing to say about him right and you did rap battle me backstage I did which was awkward I kept wanting to challenge everyone on tour to a rap battle yeah and it was a mistake yeah and I remember my style is very early 80s I'm Conan O'Brien and I'm here to say yeah I'm the best rapper in the USA and then usually it trails out right after that yeah you keep the cadence but it wouldn't rhyme you really struggled what rhymes with models yeah and we were like it's bottles it's bottles I struggled with that and I bought what I thought was a Kangol cap yeah but it was just a small sailor's cap and that also hurt that hurt I so I learned eventually to stop challenging people yeah to rap battles but that was the first I think that was might have been the first real conversation I had with you because I don't know you probably have people like this in your life if you grow up watching someone and you are the only one I think I'd also secretly record The OC because they did sex on the show and I was like ooh my chemicals and I wasn't getting sex from your show so what are you talking about my show was my show was was liquid sex growling at Heather Graham I'm like I'm not gonna do that so I was like I'm not gonna do that I love you I always said Heather Graham I'm like even as a homeschool religious kid I was like that's lame yeah so you have these people in your head that are just TV people they carry so much weight in your head so even even doing that rooftop show maybe it was sun poisoning being at the top of that roof but I couldn't hear my own voice it was just like shell shock like the scene in Saving Private Ryan where he stands up and he's just and around it's chaos you meant so much to me in my life I went up on that roof and I was on that roof for 20 minutes I had to be taken to the hospital immediately yeah because I burst into flames I don't know you guys were up there the whole time I think it was illegal for us to put you on that roof oh yeah there was so many soft spots on that roof I'm sorry there's so many things that gave it was like stepping on a loaf of bread yeah but we were told initially that you might it's possible don't get your hopes up it's the pre-show he's got a lot to do it's possible he might come up for two minutes just to solidify like hey my name's on this thing and you guys are gonna keep throwing to clips but we were blown away and I had so much trouble sleeping that each night was just so exciting because you would stay up there for 20 minutes it was fun but I have to say but you know you've worked your ass off for years you've worked really hard you're very talented but I've always said to people talent is less interesting to me there's plenty of people that have talent it's what do you do with it and you have worked very hard and you're a person of real character and so you have made this happen and then you've told your story and I think what you're reacting to right now is one of the most magical things in life is talking about something that was painful for you and it brings a room full of people a lot of joy and they laugh and they applaud and you feel better and then someone hands you a check you're like what the how does what is this what is this yeah this was never I mean this wasn't even really the plan I don't know this I had to do this this is a I think a lot of people didn't realize it most people who do comedy it's a compulsion they have to do it yeah oh yeah no in my head I would work at I was like I kind of liked the industry so I'd probably be a PA be an office PA and then at night I would do standup or if it was Taco Bell and I would just stand up at night but the plan was never like this is what I'm gonna monetize this is gonna be a job and so the whole special is trying to get to that point and the whole special is supposed to be a grift meaning the true way to show forgiveness to my mom is not just say I forgive you it's like oh I'm gonna use all the tools that you used and essentially grift people into connecting with the special I say it's not a TED Talk and then the very next sentence pull out a PowerPoint remote and start talking about essentially what would be in a TED Talk and that's something I learned from her you say the grift before you do it so we would call into radio stations around the holidays and lie and say that our house burned down so we could get gifts oh my God I know so she would say that she's like I know a lot of people take advantage of you on these shows and it's not the truth I just wanna say that we just support your show and you've gotten us through a really tough time because the house just burned down and yeah so that's something I learned from her so all the tools in here and just how crafty she is with people how charming and that go-getter attitude all the set is trash from the streets of Los Angeles that that's how we've survived is we would go through people's garbage for stuff and yeah it was insane how much I used of her of like well thank you for these tools yeah yeah well I think one of the things that really comes through is how cathartic it is how this is a labor of love and it's so funny there are so many stories from your romantic misadventures and from all kinds of stuff it's not that but I can tell that it's healing to me that's the ultimate magic of comedy is that every now and then it's healing the people who are hearing it but it's also healing the person who's performing it everybody wins it's one of the few times in nature like everything in physics nature always tells you like something has to lose for energy to be over here you have to lose energy over there and I think the one thing that disproves that to me the one exception in nature is when someone's getting real joy out of performing comedy and making other people laugh too do you think there's any danger to that though like a healthy way I think the lockdown was very hard in that I didn't have the outlet I do get scared sometimes that if that went away I wouldn't I feel like it's payment for the past so if like all those things happened because I was able to transmute it into this right right but yeah I can't help but have it in the back of my mind of wondering if that is in fact actually a healthy thing I would leave that to people listening because I have the worst perspective on it and I do know that I've been in a funk lately and it's because I'm between projects I mean someone the other day I was talking to Paula Davis who has been with me for 28 years I was talking to her yesterday and she said how are you doing because I've been talking to her lately and I said yeah I'm still in a funk and then she said you haven't been in front of an audience in a long time and you were in front of audiences every day five days a week for 28 years and now you're not and I went oh yeah yeah I didn't realize and people sometimes misunderstand and think I'm a smart person and in many ways I'm not a smart I will miss the most obvious thing in the world and I just I thought yeah I gotta cope between COVID and between my particular situation of being between gigs that involve an audience yeah that's probably something that was helping me a lot that was medicine for me was to get out in front of people and even before the show started if I was just screwing around with the audience or in the commercial break screwing around with the audience that was just a salve and it's a reset you could do it with the flu because you yeah you instantly feel better much to Kuntu's ire I was doing shows even in the lockdown just because I knew I needed that to survive even bad situations where you're doing an outdoor show for cars you're performing for a bunch of Kia Sorentos even that was just like that feeling is a reset and it makes everything else that feels so unbearable sometimes just a little bit tolerable I have to talk to so many comedians that during lockdown performed for drive-in shows where people and they said the audience would flash their lights and hit their horns instead of applause and I thought that is so bizarre but I would and I did not have that experience I was doing shows over Zoom but I was thinking wow I could see that almost feeling as good that a car horn is going off I did a lot of them something yeah and I could say no because you've only heard the honk in the context of fuck you idiot move yeah oh I see and it's hard to reprogram your brain to say a warning sound it's like oh you know what I get off on I can't come unless I hear an Amber Alert you can't put that warning sound jesus christ oh man don't say too much about me but you never felt the same you're never gonna yeah you can't you can't replace the joyous sound of laughter with the sound that you associate with I just took a left on red and almost killed somebody and now I'm gonna reprogram my brain because it's such a conscious choice and laughter is supposed to be this spontaneous thing right oh you tricked the chemicals in this person's brain and you surprised them so you go yee-haw and the honk is too I don't know it's too formal well I loved your special and it's funny I feel like either a much much much older brother or a pseudo dad figure or something but I take a lot of pride in you as a person and an artist and Trash White is on HBO Max right now and as you say the response has been really tremendous and I like it my favorite story is nice thing happens to nice person who deserves it and so thank you for being a really good friend and for letting me be associated with you because yeah I mean I would say I think you're doing me more good than I'm doing you everything you said I take as fact I mean I would say a father figure in my life which is I find that hard to admit can we go with older brother I think grandpa no older brother it's not that no I'm just a brother that you're him bud no no no I am a brother that just happens to be 55 years older than you yeah but different marriage no no no that's the sick thing same same big gap in our life you were born when mom was 78 through a series of weird experiments but when I think about all the times that I got lucky a lot of them had to do with you and even when I was a kid and we were going through the worst shit that I can't even say on that special watching your show and how much work you put into that and your humor it made it a lot easier so thank you for that and thank you for giving it a shot we both win and thank you Moses and I look forward to hanging out with you probably sometime in the next three days yeah you're not gonna no no no absolutely yeah we're circling different projects but yeah no no I'm gonna show up okay all right I'm gonna show it when you guys least wanna see me I tend to do that I do have Christmas presents for you guys that are related to the show if you want what what do you mean really yeah hold on one second let me drop them off oh okay should we talk while Sam's getting these or should we wait our engineer Sam just alerted us that he had presents for us by the way when this airs it'll probably be mid to late January yes they're from me Matt I will mail you yours I got an ad around Christmas time from a store on Etsy that I'd used before and the email made me laugh so hard it said do you have a beautiful name have it engraved on an ornament which made me laugh because it implied I would have my own name made on an ornament like a psychopath it didn't say does a loved one have a beautiful name so it made me laugh and then I thought of the most beautiful name I could think of and I had these made Merry Christmas guys hey oh that's so nice Katakai oh look at that that's beautiful I think they're supposed to be baby names oh that's nice isn't it beautiful Katakai well I haven't mentioned this but we named our daughter Katakai Katakai as you made her Katakai as God made her this is so cool it's really cool thank you Sam thank you Sam that's really pretty sorry it's mid-January yeah I know I still I have and for crinkling under here you know what there's no there's really no reason why a Christmas gift needs to be given at Christmas Armenian Christmas no even Armenian when is Armenian Christmas it's like it was January 6th yeah is that just why are they just being difficult it's the Orthodox Christmas what do you mean are we just being difficult just how about on the how hard is it to move it to the 25th a lot of people celebrate it on January 6th you can't say oh are you does an entire culture celebrate on a different day just to be difficult no don't be ridiculous I realize that could come across as insensitive yeah you think I just think how hard would it be to just slide it it's a couple of days not us we do it on the 26th why can't you push it to January 6th because everyone does it on the 25th yeah but just push it oh I'm the Irish the Irish like to have it on March 9th and we the tree has to be upside down and it has to be shooting Guinness out at the bottom of it yeah well this is a good time to say Merry Christmas you two oh for God's sake it's what is it now it's late January no we're not you know I do I worked so hard to make this an evergreen show to not have it be date specific like a Christmas tree excuse me what'd you say like a Christmas tree evergreen I like these to be always fresh people can hear them at any time why can't people hear them and be like oh they recorded this around Christmas because we didn't like why is that that's okay I want it to constantly be a mystery I want my movements and motions to be a mystery come on I want people to never know where I am I'm like Saddam Hussein I've got doubles out there triples I want people to never know what's Conan up to I don't like it when we're specific about when we're recording or where we're recording you're the most easily recognizable person I know like you're not also it's 134 on January 11th Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien Sona Movsesian and Matt Gorley produced by me Matt Gorley executive produced by Adam Sachs Joanna Solotaroff and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf theme song by The White Stripes incidental music by Jimmy Vivino take it away Jimmy our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples engineering by Will Beckton talent booking by Paula Davis Gina Batista and Brit Kahn you can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode got a question for Conan call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message it too could be featured on a future episode and if you haven't already please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts Stitcher or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded this has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf