Grit The Power of Passion and Perseverance

She would write a book, Grit, The Power of Passion and Perseverance.

She says, I feel like the enthusiasm is getting ahead of the science.

She said that in one of the op-eds for The New York Times, she condemned the idea that students would face high stakes character assessment.

She says, caring about how to grow grit in our young people, no matter their socioeconomic background, doesn't preclude concern for things other than grit. Grit may not be sufficient for success, but it sure is necessary if we want our children to have a shot at a productive and satisfying life.

I feel bad for her that her study just got completely distorted and taken out of context and out of hand.

I've read Angela's book, so probably cheating a little bit.

But I can define Grit as a quarterback, I think.

They found that grit was the most important trait for success. It beat out brains. It beat out brawn.

She is grit exploitation. She is the big grit industrial complex. Most of us out there learn to appreciate grit because we had to because we lacked talent in sports.

author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Grit, The Power of Passion and Perseverance.

It has changed the way that millions of people think about success.

I want to read to you from your mega bestseller, Grit. This is on page 141. It's in the section on practice.

There's a story about purpose in your book related to bricklayers that I want to read to you. This is on page 149 of your blockbuster bestseller, Grit, in the section on purpose.

I will read to you from your mega bestseller, Grit, on page 141, the section on practice, describing how psychologists study children learning and how mistakes are embraced.

Angela, in case you don't know, is a research psychologist at the University of Pennsylvania and author of the book Grit.

Our friend Angela Duckworth, a research psychologist at the University of Pennsylvania, wrote a book about this. It's called Grit, the Power of Passion and Perseverance.

I think the reason why there are all these aphorisms about not giving up and maybe why so much of my research has focused on the psychology of staying the course is that sometimes the road not taken, the track that you want to switch to, is appealing not because it is objectively better, but because it's objectively easier just in the short run.

In other words, we give up because we're lazy, or maybe impatient or intimidated, or we're scared to fail. That makes sense, doesn't it?

Duckworth is saying we might be better off by learning to tough it out.

Angela Duckworth is a psychologist at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. She's the author of the book Grit and she is my co-host on the No Stupid Questions podcast, which you should also be listening to.

A couple of years ago, I got to be good friends with Angela Duckworth, a psychologist at the University of Pennsylvania and author of the book, Grit.

And that's how I discovered your book, Grit. And, oh man, Grit every day.

Angela Duckworth is a psychologist at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. She's the author of the book Grit, and she is my co-host on the No Stupid Questions podcast, which you should also be listening to.

In 2016, you wrote a book called Grit that really touched a nerve in society. It became a mega bestseller.

The two minute version of Grit is that when you look at high achievers, so Olympic athletes and frankly, Steve, people like, oh, Levitt, people like you, entrepreneurs who are really successful across all these different fields, they have one thing in common.

Likely not the only thing, but one common denominator that I've studied as a psychologist is this combination of perseverance and passion over really long periods. That's what I call grit.

And I think if you wanted a one word synonym, it would be stamina.

a few months ago, we tried something different, a conversational question-asking episode between me and Angela Duckworth, the University of Pennsylvania psychologist who wrote the book Grit.

Also joining us tonight as co-host, the University of Pennsylvania's psychology professor. She's also the author of the great book, Grit, The Power of Passion and Perseverance.

Angela, if you don't know, is the author of the longtime bestseller Grit, the Power of Passion and Perseverance.

Angela, here's what we know about you so far. We know that you are founder and CEO of The Character Lab. Correct.

You're best known for having written the book Grit.

Now you're the person that studies grit, passion and perseverance, so I'm not going to fact check you on whether people stick with things or not.

Joining us tonight as co-host, the author of Grit, The Power of Passion and Perseverance.

In your book, Angela, it's passion and pursuit, right?

including people you've heard before on Freakonomics Radio, like Angela Duckworth, the Penn Psychology professor and author of Grit, and David Laibson, chair of the Harvard Economics Department. Grit is passion and perseverance for very long-term goals.

You may know Duckworth from her bestselling book called Grit, which we discussed on Freakonomics Radio.

I define grit as passion and perseverance for especially long-term goals.

The message of the book is not that grit is a good thing in particular. The message of the book is that like so many other things about us that are good, we can do something to intentionally cultivate grit in ourselves and in others that we care about.

Oh, yes, here comes the self-promotion part. I am also author of a book called Grit, The Power of Passion and Perseverance.

I abbreviated it to 10 items in the book because I have discovered through personal experience that people are not very good at dividing by 12 to calculate their score.

I don't think that any of the measures that are currently available are appropriate for high stakes accountability policy, like whether a school is doing a good job educating their kids.

I am also author of a book called Grit, The Power of Passion and Perseverance.

I define grit as passion and perseverance for especially long-term goals.

So the message of the book is not that grit is a good thing in particular. The message of the book is that like so many other things about us that are good, we can do something to intentionally cultivate grit in ourselves and in others that we care about.

Angela Duckworth is a psychologist at the University of Pennsylvania. She's also founder and scientific director of the Character Lab. Her new book, Grit, The Power of Passion and Perseverance, is out this spring.

I remember talking to Angela Duckworth many years ago after she wrote her book on grit, and one of her studies was looking at spelling bee champions, and the thing that she found was that spelling bee champions obviously put in a lot of time and preparation, but they also did what she called deliberate practice, and the way she defined deliberate practice was very similar to what you're talking about, Dan, which is it was a process of deliberately trying to identify areas of weakness and focus on those areas of weakness.

The psychologist, Angela Duckworth, she wrote her book, Grit, and she talked a lot about the importance of grit.

Well, at our schools, we don't just hand kids the book by Angela Duckworth, Grit, and say, read this book and write a book report on it, right? Like, does that really teach grit? Instead, ...

Her very famous book, Grit, of course everyone knows that book.

And I mean, I didn't make that up. That's Angela Duckworth and her book Grit. A very good book.

She wrote the book called 'Grit' and she was into this idea because she studies self-control. That's what grit really is, having a lot of self-control and so she wanted to explore the Seven Deadly Sins as basically failures of self-control

And I just want you to know Chuck that Angela wrote the book on grit. She actually did. Wait a minute. Literally. Literally. See what happened there? You see what I did there? It's just so meta all over the place.

And there it is, author of Grit, The Power of Passion and Perseverance.

And that was released five years ago back in 2016. And it was on the New York Times Best Seller list for 21 weeks. So it hit a chord with many, many people.

I own a copy of your book, and if we're ever in person, I'm going to get you to sign it. It's an important book on the landscape of how we can all be all that we can be.

And you're author of an amazing book called Grit, The Power and Passion of Perseverance. Love it.

So in a nutshell, what I mean by grit is this combination of passion and perseverance for really long-term goals.

And I think that's the part I really want to emphasize, not being like, oh my God, I want to be a standup comic and I so want to do it.

It's really like how do you sustain passion and perseverance for honestly years or decades?

Because I just don't think anything great ever happens overnight.

Author of Grit, The Power and Passion of Perseverance.

And that is to say they have passion and perseverance over really long time frames.

In fact, she wrote the book on grit, literally and figuratively.

Author of Grit, The Power and Passion of Perseverance.

After I wrote the book, I actually collected more data and most people actually would like to be grittier.

Grit got a whole lot of attention with Angela Duckworth's book.

It's not easy. The answer is easy. Applying it as difficult, but you know, this Angela Duckworth wrote this book on grit and Pete Carroll was the first to bring her to his team.

grit author Angela Duckworth,

But Grit by Tammy Duckworth. For some reason or another has set me away from it. I think so. I don't think it's Tammy. Is it Tammy? I'm pretty sure. Okay, go ahead though. But that's a great book, yeah. It's a fantastic book. Just talking about how it's not always... I mean talent and smarts are one thing but how it's that whole idea of just grit sticking with something and how that really changes how you learn things, how you stick with, how it changes your life, how people that are the best at what they do, how many hours they have to put in.

They may not be the one with the most natural talent or the most natural ability but the hours you put in changes everything. And how they deal with failure. Yes. And get back up and get back up. And use it as a learning process and the zone that they get in. And she talks about everything from athletes to musicians to business leaders. So it's not just art, artsy people. It's for anyone and it's really, really good. It's also for... I got a lot of that book for dads and moms and brothers like how to just do better at life and you gotta keep showing up and keep showing up.

Angela Duckworth. Angela Duckworth, that's what it was. Yeah, I didn't, yeah there you go. Tammy Angela.

Or an amazing book called Grit.

Did you read Grit for that?

We did read Grit for that, of course, if we're coming to visit you.

Angela Duckworth's book Grit, the Power of Passion and Perseverance became an instant success.

The book perched atop the bestseller list and became a global clarion call.

Angela's book Grit, The Power of Passion and Perseverance was published in 2016.

I'm writing this book as you know Mike and I will regularly let chat GPT give me feedback on entire chapters

My TED Talk used to be called the key to success and some very unhappy person pointed out that's overselling and unlikely to be true.

I've been thinking about how the human mind likes for there to be THE key to weight loss, romantic satisfaction, a happy life, fill in the blank.

Like grit, it's the secret to success. Oh, I got it.

And then I guess you're going to get that as opposed to what I would say, which is like grit is one thing among many.

I am still known as the grit lady.

And it's this idea that if you focus on your own goals, your own grit and work habits and your interpersonal relationships, you are inevitably having a good effect on the larger world as well.

Is it mostly high status people, for instance, who read a book like grit in order to help themselves become a little higher status?

it reminds me of something you taught me long, long ago. I think this came from your work on grit which is the notion of substituting nuance for novelty.

I remember when I sold grit the book proposal, I had this sequence of these group interviews.

When you were writing Grit you were interacting with a lot of high achievers right? Pete Carroll and Jamie Dimon come to mind.

When you were writing "Grit" you were interacting with a lot of high achievers right? Pete Carroll and Jamie Dimon come to mind.

Professor Duckworth, you are known to advocate the power of grit as the subtitle of your book puts it, the power of passion and perseverance.

In that regard, the subtitle of your book, The Power of Passion and Perseverance, I think is relevant because if the passion isn't there, and if you're doing it for a different set of goals, then you can see how the payoff, even if you get it, isn't as meaningful.

When you were writing Grit, you were interacting with a lot of high achievers, right?

My objects of study.

When you were writing Grit, you were interacting with a lot of high achievers, right?

Maybe he hadn't read grit.

Professor Duckworth, you are known to advocate the power of grit, as the subtitle of your book puts it, the power of passion and perseverance.

When you were writing Grit, you were interacting with a lot of high achievers, right? Pete Carroll and Jamie Dimon come to mind.

You also wrote the book Grit.

You also wrote the book Grit.

You also wrote the book Grit.

it was very clear to me when I wrote Grit that what made the idea interesting is that we had a view that what makes somebody great at what they do is talent. That is the accepted wisdom.

But in fact, it's not. It's sustained effort and interest in what you're doing. That's grit. So I had this idea that for grit to be interesting, it had to have a foil.

I wrote a lot about my own daughters in Grit before they were old enough to really give me permission to do that.

The number one study for success is just how much pain can somebody tolerate?

I think you gotta build these buckets and really narrow it down because that musician that's a drummer right even he didn't go out and say I'm going to practice the entire song when he practice or she practices right here she's going to practice some right specific something that it takes to play drums it's not gonna be okay I'm gonna just practice the entire song it might be this particular at this particular transition I struggle with no matter the song and I'm really going to work on it things like that so I think you we have to do that and it takes and stillness is the key I remember I was reading about Pete Carroll he was saying one year he made the coaches watch film of themselves on the sideline like they had to break down film of their coaching and how deeply uncomfortable that was for everyone because they were so used to dissecting every tiny movement or mistake of the players and then all of a sudden that scrutiny was applied to themselves and it was very unpleasant and surprising but that's kind of what we have to do is you have to put yourself up for review if you want to get better it's interesting I'm like because I know what I'm really accountable for is a GM like I really won't to self-assess I really won't good constructive critics it's accountable and mean something but it's interesting similar to the it just made me think on the coaching part which is a brilliant idea but like I hate listening to myself so I would never listen to this podcast so I don't know whether I'm good or bad but it would just but my wife always tells me okay if you wanted to get better at being a podcast guest you need to listen to yourself no matter how like and I would hear myself mumbling or rambling and going holy cow I've talked too long and Ryan's giving me every bit of body language to shut up this is a podcast I don't want anybody to cut this off right and I still didn't listen to your body but when I saw it at my hitting replay I would go it would make me feel so uncomfortable that would probably become a better podcast guest no I'm the same way actually like when I when I spoke at the NFL owners meeting where you were there that's pressuring I asked them for the recording of it and I was like I'm gonna watch this and see what I could do better and of course I could it's too uncomfortable but I do find you can just ask people who you trust you can be like look I always try to go like give me some feedback but no positive feedback like tell me what's not working like when I give someone a draft of my book for notes I say you know like what's the worst part of this like what do you hate what do I need to get rid of I try to just I try to get that that feedback by asking for I can't imagine if I were charged to do a TED talk like I would probably spend two years I would probably go back to waking up at 4am going to bed at 11am just to practice on but I'm not sure that would make you better I think then you'd be all exhausted and burnt out and you'd be in your own head about it so that shows you how hard it is to right live the the simple panic rules revert back to what we knew but what we knew wasn't necessarily wise last last question what are you reading you're a big reader are you reading anything good you remember when I visited you at training camp you had a big sack of the books you're reading the one I am I finished this summer uh Annie Duke Angela Duckworth had recommended Super Forecasters yep right and and they and that whole pin group brilliant people that's in the decision making and psychology decision making but I had never read it so it's a little bit older book but there's an element of what we do in especially in player personnel right decisions where you have these large staffs and right we're all we have these independent opinions and trying to right have you read Fooled by Randomness I have not I have heard but what I end up doing run like I'm the opposite of some people I end up reading a book and then I really want to now study it and make sure I know every now and then I'll read something just to go can need to get away and I read and I but I have it's interesting I had to tell my brain this is a book that I'm not taking notes this is a book I'm just going to digest right and enjoy and it's going to take me away and I'm sure I'm going to remember a nugget here there and then there's some books that I go okay I want someone recommended this one just like the one you just did and go okay how do I need to read that when I need to study it and now now review it and then review it again so it my man my wife Kara can like read if she gets everything right yes you need four or five books a week if she gets into it and she can give me the cliff notes and then passes but she passes books to me mine stack up and it would take me a lifetime to read so it took me two summers I just finished this summer reading for the first time because I didn't read it young Atlas shrugged yeah so I mean I mean it's your thousand something pages into a pretty what did you think you know what well this is a controversial right you know what I thought and I thought she was brilliant it was very interesting sociology being from Russia yeah to now probably United States and some of those whether you are all in on her ideology or not what was interesting is I thought she was brilliant into right getting her ideology across and like all ideologies I'm never going to fall on the sword for all of it right but what I try to do in books like that that are right deep and meaningful is okay if I were all in these are the positives if I were all against these are the negatives kind of look at those and see in reality right which ones blended together you know or working or not working so like everything right there's there's probably some thumbs up parts in it and there's maybe some thumbs down parts like I don't know if that could really work but no it's it's what I think about Atlas shrugged is it's very interesting and it's impressive that she was able to make it interesting yet but it's it's also at my I read it when I was 19 or 20 and I think a lot of young men read it at that age and it feels good then as you get older I think you go this is kind of childish like you're like oh you don't appreciate me and my talents you don't love me for all my contributions to society so I'm going to take my ball and I'm going to go to my gulch you know in the middle of wherever and there only around my fellow brilliant people will I be appreciated I my thing is like what would the world look like if people did that it would be horrible so that my my ultimate takeaway on on Atlas shrugged is that it's it's immature does that make sense yes definitely I mean there's we could talk all day you know on that right but going back to the technique of the book I started it when when the quarantine kind of hit and I'm like there's no better time to read if I'm going to read Atlas shrugged than maybe now yeah so I started it last summer I'm a slow reader and this is dense and and then I came back and finished it this summer but what was fascinating is for her to set up all those characters and it I guess it was interesting enough for me to stay with it but it but then in the second half when she when it really went to rolling and there was action and now the people are preaching the ideology and you're figuring it all out you're like how did I get through that first part where she like like I really know Dagny now I mean I feel like Dagny's my sister like I know her and but it took a long time to get to know her which I don't know if you could pull off a book that dense and let's call it modern Gen Z millennial that's right ADD times I that's what I kept going back to could this book be successful today I now know it's it's an you're an author you could extraordinarily difficult and you think it's the book is basically like a series of like 20 page speeches it's like character 20 page page 20 page 20 and you're like when you finish it you're like this shouldn't have worked but somehow it did so artistically it's a feat of genius philosophically it's sort of like the joke about an iron Rand is that her thing is about the virtue of selfishness right I think it's who said do you really find that people have trouble with that you know like if you ever met anyone who wasn't selfish enough like and I think I think that's where it falls short is it's sort of addressing a problem that doesn't actually exist no doubt less this is amazing I can't wait to see you again soon and and yeah we'll do this again looking looking forward to I enjoyed it talk soon talk soon Hey it's Ryan if you want to take your study of stoicism to the next level I want to invite you to join us over at daily stoic life we have daily conversations about podcast episodes about the daily email we actually do a special weekend set of emails for everyone you get all our daily stoic courses and challenges totally for free that's hundreds of dollars of value every single year including our new year new you challenge which we're going to launch in January you get a special cloth bound edition of the best of meditations that we've done you get a bunch of cool stuff it's an awesome community I've loved being a part of it I've loved getting to meet everyone who's trying to take their study of stoicism to the next level love to have you join us check us out at daily stoic life dot com we'd love to have you and join us on this digital stoa that we that we've staked out together and get better every day if you like the daily stoic and thanks for listening you can listen early and add free right now by joining wonder e plus in the wonder e app or on apple podcasts prime members can listen ad free on Amazon music before you go would you tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey on wonder e dot com slash survey

and I think the math can tell you that I think really good coaches can present that to their players in a very emotional state to go okay we've missed six straight but we're about to hit 14 the math says it and we're going to go on a run and their leads going to dissipate and it's going to get back to normal and then we got to go do what we got to do but the coaches can take right that complexity pull it down into something simple and actually believable in a moment when there's a lot of doubt right in the room

Angela Duckworth wrote this book on grit and Pete Carroll was the first to bring her to his team