Strongmen Mussolini to the Present

A third of my book, "Strongman," is about Coups and Authoritarian Takeovers.

Trump has been very clear about his intent to have an American version of fascism.

He wants to turn the U.S., you know, the military if he could, but certainly law enforcement, to repress large numbers of Americans.

So that Trump is not interested in governance, he's interested in using public office for private benefit.

He's already said, you know, he's boasting that he accepted money during his first presidency from the Chinese for quote services, and I'm still trying to get somebody to ask him what those services were.

all of this is part of his effort to reeducate Americans to see violence as justified, patriotic, and even morally righteous. But to get people to lose their aversion to violence, savvy authoritarians also dehumanize their enemies. That is what Trump is doing, trying to get people to lose their aversion, their natural aversion to violence.

Joining us now is New York University history professor Ruth Ben-Ghiat. She is the author of the book Strongmen, From Mussolini to the Present.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat is a professor of history at NYU. She's the author of the book Strongmen.

It's all one part of the authoritarian playbook.

The people who authoritarians go after, because they're all very corrupt, are prosecutors, judges.

They try and link them--the modern playbook is you link them to George Soros, you link them to degenerates.

They also want to poison in the public's mind journalists.

So basically anyone who can prosecute or harm or expose the corruption and crimes of these individuals, Trump being one of them, becomes a target.

She is an expert on authoritarian leaders like Viktor Orban.

And he's he and his people have actually gone after you a lot in the last several months because you and I have talked about it and you've spoken a lot about Viktor Orban and how out of step he is, in fact, with even his NATO neighbors in in Europe.

Ruth is the author of the terrific book Strongmen, Mussolini to the Present.

And I write in Strongman, which is the first book to put a chapter in masculinity along with corruption and violence and propaganda because of course there's many women collaborators enablers doing this too.

That's why I wrote Strongman is to show what the outcomes, how it works and what the outcomes have been.

She writes the sub-stack lucid about authoritarianism and threats to democracy. Kind of a relevant subject matter expertise, Ruth?

Yes, I didn't plan it this way but definitely I wrote Strong Men to warn Americans that it can happen here. It can happen anywhere.

I felt I had the skill set from studying fascism for so many years. So here I am.

And in fact, Strongman, a sub-theme of my book is people going into exile so this is something since I was a teenager I've been thinking about.

And I tried to show that in my book that you know how Trump kept hiring and firing people and there was a 68 percent turnover they're all like this we just don't hear about it while it's going on because of censorship and so that's very sad.

I'm Ruth Bengayet. I write about fascism, authoritarianism and propaganda. My big question is what do you say to the it can't happen here crowd who would read your book as history but don't believe there are any lessons in it for the present?

Her most recent book, Strong Men, Mussolini to the Present, looks at how illiberal leaders use corruption and violence to maintain power and how they can be defeated.

I wrote my book Strongmen, which is case studies starting with Mussolini and Hitler going up to Orban and Trump and Putin.

The book that we have talked about is Strongmen from Mussolini to the Present. I urge everyone to read it.

Joining us now is ruth ben ghiatt history professor at new york university author of strongman musselini to the president ruth

ruth ben ghiott is a history professor at new york university and the author of strongmen from musselini to the president coming up this week we got an even better look at how big and real the fake electors plot was in donald trump's efforts to subvert the 2020 election with another indictment this time it was in arizona i'll discuss that with nbc news justice reporter ryan j riley after this

Ruth Ben-Ghiat is a professor of history at New York University, author of Strong Men, Mussolini to the present.