New Cold Wars China's Rise, Russia's Invasion, and America's Struggle to Defend the West

His latest book is called New Cold War's China's Rise, Russia's Invasion and America's Struggle to Defend the West.

So, New Cold War's... David, first of all, thank you. It's nice to see you again.

And the fundamental argument of the book is that we believed somehow, we deluded ourselves, John, into believing that China and Russia, each for their own different reasons, would like to sign up to the Western world.

And that was supposed to be the end of history because, right, the competition was over.

So, the book is sort of a warning ahead to what these next 20 or 30 years are going to look like because this is not a world in which these new cold wars are going to end sometime soon.

His latest book is called "New Cold Wars' China's Rise, Russia's Invasion, and America's Struggle to Defend the West.

The fundamental argument in the book is that we believed somehow, we deluded ourselves into believing that China and Russia, each for their own different reasons, would like to sign up to the western world.

Francis Fukuyama said it's the end of history. Western liberalism is triumphant, and we can all just skate on the glorious booty that we get from it.

Putin isn't trying to recreate the Soviet Union. He thinks the guys who ran the Soviet Union were idiots.

The book is sort of a warning ahead to what these next 20 or 30 years are gonna look like because this is not a world in which these new cold wars are gonna end sometime soon they are gonna be the dominant theme of the next 20, 30, 40 years long after Putin and Xi are gone and long after Joe Biden and Donald Trump are gone.

Sanger's just published book, "New Cold Wars."

The core argument of "New Cold Wars" is that for the past 30 years we were living in a delusion. It was a delusion we created for ourselves after the fall of the Berlin Wall and during that unipower moment for the United States when looked like no one could touch us.

I think the answer is pretty easy. I think we have to be more fearful of a weak China because that's the one that's more likely to lash out. A strong China is more likely to feel confident about its future.

The book if anything is a warning that we have to begin to develop a serious strategy that will last us 10 or 20 or 30 years to deal with that.

This book is called "New Cold Wars" with an s like that. We might get nuked.

Sanger's mesmerizing inside story of a world transformed will inspire and disturb, but as the author makes abundantly clear, no one who lives on this planet can ignore what is happening.

It's at the end of the introduction that I think sums up the Ukraine war when he said, we thought this was going to be a clean cyber war and then we thought it was a World War II tank war. And then it became a blanking World War I trench warfare. And the answer is, it was all three.

I described at the beginning of the book going to Beijing University with Bill Clinton and he gave a speech which I actually believed at that time saying the internet will set you free and will undercut the power of the Communist Party.

And so we overlooked every warning from Vladimir Putin that in fact he had some other priorities and that restoring the lands of Peter the Great, meaning starting with Ukraine was that priority.

The central argument of this book is that for the 30 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union we deluded ourselves into thinking that the world was moving in the direction of those sets of values.