The Bulwark Podcast

He's probably most noted for a book that he wrote, Jefferson's Lies, which I think came out in 2012.

And it argued that Jefferson was an orthodox traditional Christian and that the interpretations that most people have, which was- I think it's safe to say that as a revisionist view of Thomas Jefferson. We know it's a revisionist view of Thomas Jefferson. And Jefferson scholars just eviscerated the book. It's just filled with falsehoods.

Kristen Dumais, who's been a guest on this podcast, history professor, scholar of all this, has written about Barton's claims.

And she wrote a very good book called Jesus and John Wayne.

But before we do that though, Jonathan Karl is out with a new book about the Trump years and he has a lot of stories that reflect how crazy they almost were.

For those of you that wonder how separated from reality can Donald Trump actually get?

We are joined by arguably one of the nation's most prominent experts on what's going on on university campuses. We're joined by Greg Lukianoff, president and CEO of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, who is the coauthor of a new book, The Cancelling of the American Mind.

So cancel culture, you know, one of those controversial terms. And of course, one of the first things that people mention is why did you use this term that I hate?

Readers read canceling of the American mind. And you're not going to come out of that saying all these people deserve to be canceled.

This book is a follow up to a book that you wrote with Jonathan Haidt back in 2018, The Coddling of the American Mind.

The book is The Cancelling of the American Mind.

We're joined by arguably one of the nation's most prominent experts on what's going on on university campuses. We're joined by Greg Lukianoff, president and CEO of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, who is the coauthor of a new book, The Cancelling of the American Mind.

Our definition of cancel culture is and what I'm trying to do, what is it? So it's the uptick since 2014 of campaigns to get people fired, punished, de-platformed for speech that would be protected under the First Amendment.

Readers read canceling of the American mind. And you're not going to come out of that saying all these people deserve to be canceled.

You opened the book with the story of this art history professor at Hamline University in Minnesota in 2022, who showed her students a 14th century painting that included a representation of the prophet Muhammad.

The book is The Cancelling of the American Mind.

And I also actually read The Last of the President's Men by Bob Woodward, which featured Alex Butterfield, went through one more interview with the committee, and they were still interested in talking to me more throughout the month of June.

McKay Coppins' new book has Mitt Romney describing Pence this way. No one had been more loyal, more willing to smile when he saw absurdities, more willing to ascribe God's will to things that were ungodly than Mike Pence.

So I'm just saying, hypothetically, should another book of mine come out, it's very important that everybody in here buy it so that I can get to even here at The Bulwark.

We are joined by Jonathan Martin, who is a senior political columnist at Politico. He's also its Politics Bureau Chief and the author of the bestselling book, This Will Not Pass, Trump, Biden, and the Battle for America's Future.

John Adams, the second president, once described himself as obnoxious and disliked. But John Adams was a statesman. Jim Jordan is also obnoxious and disliked, and no one is going to mistake him for being a statesman, right?

Ryan Reilly, who is justice reporter at NBC News and author of a brand new book came out just yesterday, Sedition Hunters. How January 6th broke the justice system?

Your book is really interesting because you mentioned things about the FBI and casting some data on the competence of the FBI. This is a really important part of the story, because what you write about is the online sleuths who helped catch the January 6th rioters. And the title of your book, and when I first got it in the mail, I was really struck by it.

The Sedition Hunters, How January 6th Broke the Justice System.

My takeaway was that if it had been just left up to the justice system, to the FBI, to the intelligence services, we wouldn't have really broken this case, would we?

The book is Sedition Hunters, How January 6th Broke the Justice System. It is a really an incredible read. It is very eye opening. It's very entertaining.

He likes to write essays now and again. He was famous for writing Software is Eating the World, which is like, well, thank you for that obvious revelation.

and also the co-author most recently of The Divider, a history of Donald Trump in the White House with her husband, The New York Times' Peter Baker.

She's also the co-author of The Divider, the history of Donald Trump, which she co-wrote with her husband, Peter Baker.

We are joined today by Steve Inskeep, cohost of NPR's Morning Edition and the author of a new book out just last week, Differ We Must How Lincoln Succeeded in a Divided America.

You make the observation, I think it's the first line of the book that Abraham Lincoln was a politician and being a politician has become a dirty word these days.

What's interesting about this book is the contrast between the politics of someone like Abraham Lincoln and the politics that we are unfortunately having to endure right now.

The book is Differ We Must How Lincoln Succeeded in a Divided America, and you use 16 encounters with 16 different people that he disagreed with, that he was willing to sit down with.