The Underworld Podcast

And Narco-Topia, our buddy Patrick Wynn. We talked about this but he really gets into this so definitely buy his book.

Martin Perlbeck brilliant Asian prime century sub-stech here for more some more info about the gang's beginnings quote one group of Chinese exiles residing at Wing War village on the outskirts of Taipei were repeatedly attacked and extorted by established local gangs.

And so they grouped together to form the chukluan bong literally translated as bamboo united gang with the name derived from the bamboo grows that surrounded wing war village.

Definitely pick that up and pick up his new one that we're going to talk about today. He's going to tell that story. It's called Narcotopia, in search of the Asian drug cartel that survived the CIA.

And it's like proper adventure journalist stuff. Like he's in the hinterlands, in the middle of nowhere, doing stuff that I think journalists don't really do anymore.

He spent years investigating the United Wah State Army, which some call the most powerful drug trafficking organization on earth.

And according to Patrick's book, they're sold in higher volumes than Big Macs, which yeah, that's a lot of meth.

I know you're going to hate that I bring this up, but my first introduction to the Wah was when I was preparing to go to Burma for the first time in 2013.

And for, sorry just for anyone looking to understand more about the region, Patrick Nguyen's book is great. I highly recommend it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a new one coming out, Narcotopia I think about the WAH itself.

In Owen Grillo's El Narco, I think we've interviewed him what? Three times on this podcast. But that book is also fantastic.

Yeah, I think they talk about this either in El Narco or in Sam Quinonez's book or in both about how the people who started growing opium in Mexico were Chinese margin workers, I think, right?

A lot of this comes from Malcolm Bates book The Last Narco.

I think that's how you say his last name, which is ostensibly about Elchapo. But Elmayo obviously plays a huge role in Sinaloa.

Like, you know, Elmayo, he's the one who realizes once he's solely in charge when Chapo's locked up that corruption is an incredibly important tool kit for a narco to have.

According to The Last Narco book, the authorities believe they were always one step behind Elchapo and two steps behind Elmayo.

To quote The Last Narco, quote, one DEA agent likens him to a chairman of the board who operates solely from the top floor and made the executive decisions.

One DEA agent likens him to a chairman of the board who operates solely from the top floor and made the executive decisions. El Mayo knew what to do with the money and he knew how to handle the Columbians. He also knew what was good for business.

He was the guy who wants to cooperate and bring people together the DEA believed.

And this is a book that came out 15 years ago if anything like he's got to be even more removed by now.

It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. It was the classic stories like A Tale of Two Cities, Pride and Prejudice, Winnie the Pooh.

He said, Sun Tzu, Art of War, and Marcus Aurelius, The Dialogue.

It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. It was the classic stories like A Tale of Two Cities, Pride and Prejudice, Winnie the Pooh.

It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. It was the classic stories like A Tale of Two Cities, Pride and Prejudice, Winnie the Pooh.

One of our earliest episodes is about Dawood, and he's also the central basis for the main gangster character in Shantaram.

Like any old school Mafia guy who was still with us and now free, you can find Larry's book in stores and he's always on interviews and podcasts.

He's admitted to helping kill 25 people. I think he took credit for firing the shots for 4 of them.

I think there was something in Ben Judo's book years ago about this as well. I mean, that I think it's called This is London. It's a great book. Kids can earn one hundred and twenty thousand dollars a year in the British capital just by begging.

I've left some really good resources on the reading list for Patreon subscribers and a link to the book, Rain of Ash by Arioscovitz, which I skimmed a bit of it was really, really interesting. It's about how Roma turned to Jewish institutions as they sought recognition for the crimes the Nazis carried out against them because they weren't getting any.

Cheers to my mate, Olly Slow wrote the book Return of the Hunter.

Toby Mews who wrote the book on cocaine, the book on cocaine called Kilo that we've talked about here with him quite often.

if you guys haven't bought his book Kilo it's out everywhere and it is basically the book on cocaine and how it gets from the fields to your nose in a bathroom stall in a in bushwick or Berlin so pick that up

Your book Kilo uh is out there on all books selling websites and it's one of the best reads ever on on drugs and cartels and things of that nature

The Opium Queen which is really forensic especially about her early life and unpacking the many mysteries surrounding it which there are many.

Another classic about this early opium trade is Merchants of Badness by Bertel Lindner, one of the true experts on Burmese history today although he was really rude to me once so that's the last you're going to hear about him on this particular show.

He also wrote the book I always reference what's a call on like insurgency in opium the making of Burmour or something like that but it's a beautiful book.

I mean, I just read the People Who Eat Darkness and like, everyone's into Pachinko, right?

When you see everything that happened to like you know with good fellows and all that not the movie but the the book that it's based on and every like it really was a lot of friends that just were killing their friends for various little things even with that when you read about the outfit and went on there it takes it to another level of of brutality so jikanah moving on jikanah was also not distributing some fun stuff at members who needed it guys who were on the lamb or whatever else it was so we started a ruffle feathers with people whose ruffle feathers lead to uh you getting murdered in 1965 jikanah he's in another one of those set adherings he gets bagged for contempt for a year a cardo and rica immediately replaced him as boss with joey joey dubza yupa joey'd actually got to start in the outfit back in the 1920s by being a driver for a cardo and when cardo was named captain he elevated him to his crew so these two go way back when jikanah's released a year later a cardo in the senior leadership they've had enough so they basically exiled him to mexico due to his high profile and unsettling behavior like I did with shawan and news eland after a few too many stories from the burlin club scene we were getting out of him back in 2022 I mean getting exiled to mexico that's I can think of worse things in life than that but uh I don't know maybe you just wanted a he just really loved killing people so it wasn't for him especially back then man like the glory days of a kapoko but yeah in 1972 Paul rica dies he leaves a cardo all alone as the ultimate authority in the outfit so I know this is an amazing a cardo story to highlight once again how publicity a verse that he was there were two Italian professional wrestlers who came to town and they wrestled as a mafia inspired tag team called the Sicilians and a cardo persuaded them to drop the gimmick because he didn't he didn't like it I mean obviously today that would never happen because vince mcman he's more of a psychopath than a mafia boss so they would like to have to back down you know he tells them what to do wall an exiled jikanah opens up gambling operations on cruise ships in guadamala in a in a ron somehow of course however he doesn't send any money back to the outfit which makes a cardo pissed off and other top outfit members they're not too happy with it and the early 1970s the senate starts investigating the cia illegal operations which include the jian kana kasta assassination conspiracies that we talk about on the marcollo episode from a few months back in the senate of course they want to hear from him yeah you guys should uh if you haven't listened to that one go back it's what like six seven episodes ago exploding cigars mobsters left in trash cans uh it's great especially because I think I was recording it at five a.m. in a PNG hotel room so my performance as it is today is absolutely incredible so jikanah you know he gets sent sent back from from from from Mexico to uh to testify he returns back to Chicago in 1974 with the church committee which is what it was called that's expecting to get going in 1975 but as we talk about in that episode he's gunned down in his home by someone who was close to him news articles immediately theorized that uh he was taken out maybe by the cia was because the outfit was scared that he was gonna talk and we get the probable real answer in a quote from a 1977 New York Times article mrs. jian kana was killed because he tried to reassert his authority in jacago after a ten year absence sam thought nothing had changed but everything had changed the mafia figure said the information that I am providing today is coming from higher-dimensional consciousness things got so weird during 2020 and it wasn't just the q&a on conspiracy theorists this new age channel told us Donald Trump is a massive and powerful light worker a light worker and then what about this opra endorsed best-selling feminist health icon talking about heavy metals as we continued studying what we now call conspirituality it only got more intense this is this is the cult of baffamit this is molachite worshipping stuff it gets very gory in the and it culminated with that shaman dude showing up at the capital insurrection but it didn't stop there every week on conspirituality podcast we track the overlaps between new age spirituality and far right conspiracy cults what's up everyone I want to talk to you guys today about my friends at barbersurgeon's guild they're in incredible barbershop and hair restoration center in los angeles in new york I actually get my hair cut at the one in new york so go see my man just and if you want a great cut but it's actually so much more than that these are the guys helping celebrities you know athletes actors in their thirties and their forties fifties sixties all have great hair they are the miracle workers you know I myself I was born in the eighties so I'm definitely trying to take good care of my hair and besides getting my haircut there I've actually seen them for PRP maintenance which has been like a huge help my hair looks great but they do so much more than that they've got all sorts of cutting edge technology you know they've got programs they've got something for everyone they they also do robotic hair transplants which is like the newest thing in hair transplant technology definitely look them up it's barbersurgeonsgild.com you can get a free consultation and mention underworld and you'll actually get a free gift as well that's barbersurgeonsgild.com B-A-R-B-E-R-S-U-R-G-E-O-N-S-G-U-I-L-D.com they're going to help you look great the 1970s is also when the outfit gets involved in Vegas where they end up making some good money Vegas always had this mob presence going back to like Buggy Seagull, Modalita Cleveland, Candice Mops, Milwaukee Mops, Florida all the mob families they had casino investments at one time or another for a few reasons the first is that Vegas was an open city meaning no mob had had claimed to it and everyone could get their hustles on and the second was that for a long time Wall Street banks everyone with money wanted nothing to do with Vegas investments casino-wise because it was seen as like you know in proper too sleazy too risky definitely not like it is now so a lot of mobs would would use their influence you could say with the labor union pension funds to then loan out money to people who are building or taking over casinos in Vegas if you see casino you kind of know what it's all about. No I never seen it with the the Indian mob involved in any of this doesn't seem like I think the Chicago mob dominated the Indian. Oh yeah, but I'm actually I'm working on a doc series podcast about some of the guys involved with that particular play the Argent Enterprise yeah let me rewind a sec to when Chicago and a cardo first really got involved which was the start is casino it's a resort it's being built in the 1950s by a bootlegger turned gaming magnet who previously had mafia ties to casinos that went belly up. Tony makes a secret investment in the start us in 1954 among a bunch of other people the builder actually runs out of money and gets multiple loans from various other mobsters that's the first of multiple casinos where a cardo has a piece the major one though is which casino is based on and the doctor's podcast I'm doing too it's the origin scheme and that's where the teamsters pension fund central state team sir pension fund gets convinced by the Milwaukee mob with a little help from Kansas City and Cleveland to make $90 million worth of loans to a small time real estate guy named Alan Glick who buys up for casinos which the various Midwest mafia's own pieces of and they steal from it off the top with the help of lefty rose and thaw and with protection from Anthony's blotro those are the characters that Robbie De Niro and Joe Pesci play in casino basically the guys are based off them eventually Chicago gets involved there's multiple stories of how and when but most center on dispute between the various mob is Chicago is kind of brought in to be you know the boss the com things down and of course take a healthy piece of the action for their work doing that the scheme is worth millions of dollars a month and it ran for years with 20 a card on the Chicago outfit getting the biggest taste of the profits and just completely running the show so yeah you could say the outfit is doing really really well and they've expanded nationally and basically they're the most powerful organized crime organization west of the Mississippi maybe even overall with New York being split five weeks gene connoisseurs out joy I was in and a cardo is just sitting pretty maybe even calling a lot of shots and by the late 1970s multiple top outfit members and a number of Chicago mobsters they purchase homes in Palm Springs California according to a 1978 Chicago Tribune article the outfit had invested 50 million dollars into Palm Springs and 45 mafia members had homes there including 32 from the outfit alone these mobsters included iupe and a cardo which is you know kind of hilarious when you think of these guys and this sort of rich retirement community I guess now it's kind of like a hipster spot as well but yeah then just having like a there's a sitcom there you know something along those lines a cardo basically retires himself he spends most of his time in Palm Springs occasionally find the Chicago to mediate big disputes and for sit downs by this time his personal holdings include legal investments in commercial office buildings retail centers you know lumber farms paper factories hotels car dealerships trucking companies newspaper companies restaurants travel agencies he's been at the outfit at the top of it for basically 40 years and just has diversified everywhere still a mob guy through and through and in 1978 when he's in Palm Springs burglar's breaking to his house I guess he wasn't there they ran socket they robbed the place than a couple of months seven people that are connected to it are found brutally murdered so yeah he could still get things happening even though he was technically retired I mean this is real good old days if mobsters are running newspapers I guess that's one way to revive the media industry I'd be well out for that but also I spent a night in Palm Springs once it's such an ace place I really enjoyed it like robbing a house in Palm Springs back then it's like ultimate street gang Russian roulette so it could be some retired old trust funder where it could be a blood thirsty like 60-year-old gangster I mean you know I'm down for it yeah imagine they rob that house not knowing who it was like my assumption is they knew it wasn't thought they can get away with it but uh just uh major major faux pas there yeah the thing with a card always organized crime bosses who kind of reach the heights like him they don't retire usually right they either get killed as boss go to jail or in some rare examples die from natural causes I think my relance he would be one and I think another one would be um the original founder of the golf cartel donna don Juan I think it is yeah semi-retires but his nephew is a family is a family member who takes over not other people so Tony Acarto he just must have had this ultimate respect in Chicago outfit not just because he wasn't taken out but because mob guys in a touristy greedy and we got to assume he wasn't still participating at the stage for free you know he's getting money because at some point you know one of the bosses doesn't tell him just to get the hell out of there or just kill him and take over what was his and I think he for he's basically like just a grandpa you know like a mall walker he's hauled before another senate committee investigating labor act hearing says a little bit more but he's still cited for contempt somehow though like always he voids big trouble and two years later when joy I went a whole bunch top outfit in other Midwest guys get convicted or forced to plead and the Argent casino skim trials key to is just kind of somehow not brought down with them Acarto by then he's barely spent any time locked up there's also been no major attempts on his life throughout his career as a boss he's legit retired and living with his daughter and son-in-law in their home he's got heart disease and he eventually dies of that in 1992 at the age of 86 which uh yeah like massive kudos to this guy he's got the whole thing going on right getting to really say get into legit businesses keep your head down don't I IG grimes like diapacely in your a is rich absolutely nailed it yeah and that legacy I mean that's why many consider him to be one of the most if not the most successful american mobster of all time right it's one thing to be super successful and then get murdered at 45 it's another to be super successful and retire and then die in your home with your family and in your 80s uh I mean there could be an argument for him being one of the most successful organized crime figures of all time you know especially in the age of wiretaps and and regos and FBI and other conscious equivalents to the FBI but legacy you know he aims to end the game with a bowl of cash he didn't live lavishly in diverse spot like crazy and houses family doing today which is a big question are they still wealthy they're better than wealthy Sean they're in the NFL the most dominant force in American culture besides Taylor Swift maybe maybe maybe tied with Taylor Swift yeah it's the same thing yeah none of us children get into organized crime his daughter marries in NFL player making his son-in-law in NFL player and then the next generation his grandson becomes an NFL player and finally now his two great grandsons aren't just in the NFL they're not just regular players they're the boasa brothers who both play defensive and one's one second overall on the draft the others taken third overall on the draft both were named defensive rookie of the year in their respective classes Joey Boasa I think signed a five year deal for 135 million in 2020 for the chargers and Nick was named not only rookie defensive player the year but defensive player the year in 2022 and before the start of his season sound a five year 170 million dollar contract which is the highest of any NFL defensive player in history so yeah I mean the a caro family tree they're doing pretty well and I don't I mean my little brother helped me with this paragraph because he's a die hard NFL plan but uh they're doing they're doing good today do they talk about this much because like I've even heard of the boasa brothers so they they're huge I had no idea they were like mob royalty I assume they don't bring it up often but if they want to do a podcast you know we're we're here for you guys can you can one of them please take Taylor Swift off of Kelsey so we can get that uh fan base as well if you want to reach one of the top five or six hundred podcasts in the US like where your guys forget forget Rogan or call her daddy like we're we're the guys to talk to so yeah to recap all star NFL great grandchildren making more money than any modern day criminal in the US could dream of probably internationally too besides like a couple of actual mafia guys at Italy Gamora guys and cartel bosses and some Asian meth and heroin king pins no real jail time semi retired not to date today operations all the stress andfully dies like Carlo Gambino so I think yeah the battle between him and Carlo Gambino he comes out on top and his family is definitely way richer now although the Gambino's are doing well from what I understand but there you have it the most successful US mobster of all time yeah and I'm gonna go off and uh and research making a Indiana sucks bull's t-shirt which I think we'll do really well don't don't don't start uh but yeah uh thanks for for bearing with us folks until next week patreon.com all the other stuff you

it really was a lot of friends that just were killing their friends for various little things

when you read about the outfit and went on there it takes it to another level of of brutality so jikanah moving on jikanah was also not distributing some fun stuff at members who needed it guys who were on the lamb or whatever else it was so we started a ruffle feathers with people whose ruffle feathers lead to uh you getting murdered in 1965 jikanah he's in another one of those set adherings he gets bagged for contempt for a year a cardo and rica immediately replaced him as boss with joey joey dubza yupa joey'd actually got to start in the outfit back in the 1920s by being a driver for a cardo and when cardo was named captain he elevated him to his crew so these two go way back when jikanah's released a year later a cardo in the senior leadership they've had enough so they basically exiled him to mexico due to his high profile and unsettling behavior like I did with shawan and news eland after a few too many stories from the burlin club scene we were getting out of him back in 2022 I mean getting exiled to mexico that's I can think of worse things in life than that but uh I don't know maybe you just wanted a he just really loved killing people so it wasn't for him especially back then man like the glory days of a kapoko but yeah in 1972 Paul rica dies he leaves a cardo all alone as the ultimate authority in the outfit so I know this is an amazing a cardo story to highlight once again how publicity a verse that he was there were two Italian professional wrestlers who came to town and they wrestled as a mafia inspired tag team called the Sicilians and a cardo persuaded them to drop the gimmick because he didn't he didn't like it I mean obviously today that would never happen because vince mcman he's more of a psychopath than a mafia boss so they would like to have to back down you know he tells them what to do wall an exiled jikanah opens up gambling operations on cruise ships in guadamala in a in a ron somehow of course however he doesn't send any money back to the outfit which makes a cardo pissed off and other top outfit members they're not too happy with it and the early 1970s the senate starts investigating the cia illegal operations which include the jian kana kasta assassination conspiracies that we talk about on the marcollo episode from a few months back in the senate of course they want to hear from him yeah you guys should uh if you haven't listened to that one go back it's what like six seven episodes ago exploding cigars mobsters left in trash cans uh it's great especially because I think I was recording it at five a.m. in a PNG hotel room so my performance as it is today is absolutely incredible so jikanah you know he gets sent sent back from from from from Mexico to uh to testify he returns back to Chicago in 1974 with the church committee which is what it was called that's expecting to get going in 1975 but as we talk about in that episode he's gunned down in his home by someone who was close to him news articles immediately theorized that uh he was taken out maybe by the cia was because the outfit was scared that he was gonna talk and we get the probable real answer in a quote from a 1977 New York Times article mrs. jian kana was killed because he tried to reassert his authority in jacago after a ten year absence sam thought nothing had changed but everything had changed the mafia figure said the information that I am providing today is coming from higher-dimensional consciousness things got so weird during 2020 and it wasn't just the q&a on conspiracy theorists this new age channel told us Donald Trump is a massive and powerful light worker a light worker and then what about this opra endorsed best-selling feminist health icon talking about heavy metals as we continued studying what we now call conspirituality it only got more intense this is this is the cult of baffamit this is molachite worshipping stuff it gets very gory in the and it culminated with that shaman dude showing up at the capital insurrection but it didn't stop there every week on conspirituality podcast we track the overlaps between new age spirituality and far right conspiracy cults what's up everyone I want to talk to you guys today about my friends at barbersurgeon's guild they're in incredible barbershop and hair restoration center in los angeles in new york I actually get my hair cut at the one in new york so go see my man just and if you want a great cut but it's actually so much more than that these are the guys helping celebrities you know athletes actors in their thirties and their forties fifties sixties all have great hair they are the miracle workers you know I myself I was born in the eighties so I'm definitely trying to take good care of my hair and besides getting my haircut there I've actually seen them for PRP maintenance which has been like a huge help my hair looks great but they do so much more than that they've got all sorts of cutting edge technology you know they've got programs they've got something for everyone they they also do robotic hair transplants which is like the newest thing in hair transplant technology definitely look them up it's barbersurgeonsgild.com you can get a free consultation and mention underworld and you'll actually get a free gift as well that's barbersurgeonsgild.com B-A-R-B-E-R-S-U-R-G-E-O-N-S-G-U-I-L-D.com they're going to help you look great the 1970s is also when the outfit gets involved in Vegas where they end up making some good money Vegas always had this mob presence going back to like Buggy Seagull, Modalita Cleveland, Candice Mops, Milwaukee Mops, Florida all the mob families they had casino investments at one time or another for a few reasons the first is that Vegas was an open city meaning no mob had had claimed to it and everyone could get their hustles on and the second was that for a long time Wall Street banks everyone with money wanted nothing to do with Vegas investments casino-wise because it was seen as like you know in proper too sleazy too risky definitely not like it is now so a lot of mobs would would use their influence you could say with the labor union pension funds to then loan out money to people who are building or taking over casinos in Vegas if you see casino you kind of know what it's all about. No I never seen it with the the Indian mob involved in any of this doesn't seem like I think the Chicago mob dominated the Indian. Oh yeah, but I'm actually I'm working on a doc series podcast about some of the guys involved with that particular play the Argent Enterprise yeah let me rewind a sec to when Chicago and a cardo first really got involved which was the start is casino it's a resort it's being built in the 1950s by a bootlegger turned gaming magnet who previously had mafia ties to casinos that went belly up. Tony makes a secret investment in the start us in 1954 among a bunch of other people the builder actually runs out of money and gets multiple loans from various other mobsters that's the first of multiple casinos where a cardo has a piece the major one though is which casino is based on and the doctor's podcast I'm doing too it's the origin scheme and that's where the teamsters pension fund central state team sir pension fund gets convinced by the Milwaukee mob with a little help from Kansas City and Cleveland to make $90 million worth of loans to a small time real estate guy named Alan Glick who buys up for casinos which the various Midwest mafia's own pieces of and they steal from it off the top with the help of lefty rose and thaw and with protection from Anthony's blotro those are the characters that Robbie De Niro and Joe Pesci play in casino basically the guys are based off them eventually Chicago gets involved there's multiple stories of how and when but most center on dispute between the various mob is Chicago is kind of brought in to be you know the boss the com things down and of course take a healthy piece of the action for their work doing that the scheme is worth millions of dollars a month and it ran for years with 20 a card on the Chicago outfit getting the biggest taste of the profits and just completely running the show so yeah you could say the outfit is doing really really well and they've expanded nationally and basically they're the most powerful organized crime organization west of the Mississippi maybe even overall with New York being split five weeks gene connoisseurs out joy I was in and a cardo is just sitting pretty maybe even calling a lot of shots and by the late 1970s multiple top outfit members and a number of Chicago mobsters they purchase homes in Palm Springs California according to a 1978 Chicago Tribune article the outfit had invested 50 million dollars into Palm Springs and 45 mafia members had homes there including 32 from the outfit alone these mobsters included iupe and a cardo which is you know kind of hilarious when you think of these guys and this sort of rich retirement community I guess now it's kind of like a hipster spot as well but yeah then just having like a there's a sitcom there you know something along those lines a cardo basically retires himself he spends most of his time in Palm Springs occasionally find the Chicago to mediate big disputes and for sit downs by this time his personal holdings include legal investments in commercial office buildings retail centers you know lumber farms paper factories hotels car dealerships trucking companies newspaper companies restaurants travel agencies he's been at the outfit at the top of it for basically 40 years and just has diversified everywhere still a mob guy through and through and in 1978 when he's in Palm Springs burglar's breaking to his house I guess he wasn't there they ran socket they robbed the place than a couple of months seven people that are connected to it are found brutally murdered so yeah he could still get things happening even though he was technically retired I mean this is real good old days if mobsters are running newspapers I guess that's one way to revive the media industry I'd be well out for that but also I spent a night in Palm Springs once it's such an ace place I really enjoyed it like robbing a house in Palm Springs back then it's like ultimate street gang Russian roulette so it could be some retired old trust funder where it could be a blood thirsty like 60-year-old gangster I mean you know I'm down for it yeah imagine they rob that house not knowing who it was like my assumption is they knew it wasn't thought they can get away with it but uh just uh major major faux pas there yeah the thing with a card always organized crime bosses who kind of reach the heights like him they don't retire usually right they either get killed as boss go to jail or in some rare examples die from natural causes I think my relance he would be one and I think another one would be um the original founder of the golf cartel donna don Juan I think it is yeah semi-retires but his nephew is a family is a family member who takes over not other people so Tony Acarto he just must have had this ultimate respect in Chicago outfit not just because he wasn't taken out but because mob guys in a touristy greedy and we got to assume he wasn't still participating at the stage for free you know he's getting money because at some point you know one of the bosses doesn't tell him just to get the hell out of there or just kill him and take over what was his and I think he for he's basically like just a grandpa you know like a mall walker he's hauled before another senate committee investigating labor act hearing says a little bit more but he's still cited for contempt somehow though like always he voids big trouble and two years later when joy I went a whole bunch top outfit in other Midwest guys get convicted or forced to plead and the Argent casino skim trials key to is just kind of somehow not brought down with them Acarto by then he's barely spent any time locked up there's also been no major attempts on his life throughout his career as a boss he's legit retired and living with his daughter and son-in-law in their home he's got heart disease and he eventually dies of that in 1992 at the age of 86 which uh yeah like massive kudos to this guy he's got the whole thing going on right getting to really say get into legit businesses keep your head down don't I IG grimes like diapacely in your a is rich absolutely nailed it yeah and that legacy I mean that's why many consider him to be one of the most if not the most successful american mobster of all time right it's one thing to be super successful and then get murdered at 45 it's another to be super successful and retire and then die in your home with your family and in your 80s uh I mean there could be an argument for him being one of the most successful organized crime figures of all time you know especially in the age of wiretaps and and regos and FBI and other conscious equivalents to the FBI but legacy you know he aims to end the game with a bowl of cash he didn't live lavishly in diverse spot like crazy and houses family doing today which is a big question are they still wealthy they're better than wealthy Sean they're in the NFL the most dominant force in American culture besides Taylor Swift maybe maybe maybe tied with Taylor Swift yeah it's the same thing yeah none of us children get into organized crime his daughter marries in NFL player making his son-in-law in NFL player and then the next generation his grandson becomes an NFL player and finally now his two great grandsons aren't just in the NFL they're not just regular players they're the boasa brothers who both play defensive and one's one second overall on the draft the others taken third overall on the draft both were named defensive rookie of the year in their respective classes Joey Boasa I think signed a five year deal for 135 million in 2020 for the chargers and Nick was named not only rookie defensive player the year but defensive player the year in 2022 and before the start of his season sound a five year 170 million dollar contract which is the highest of any NFL defensive player in history so yeah I mean the a caro family tree they're doing pretty well and I don't I mean my little brother helped me with this paragraph because he's a die hard NFL plan but uh they're doing they're doing good today do they talk about this much because like I've even heard of the boasa brothers so they they're huge I had no idea they were like mob royalty I assume they don't bring it up often but if they want to do a podcast you know we're we're here for you guys can you can one of them please take Taylor Swift off of Kelsey so we can get that uh fan base as well if you want to reach one of the top five or six hundred podcasts in the US like where your guys forget forget Rogan or call her daddy like we're we're the guys to talk to so yeah to recap all star NFL great grandchildren making more money than any modern day criminal in the US could dream of probably internationally too besides like a couple of actual mafia guys at Italy Gamora guys and cartel bosses and some Asian meth and heroin king pins no real jail time semi retired not to date today operations all the stress andfully dies like Carlo Gambino so I think yeah the battle between him and Carlo Gambino he comes out on top and his family is definitely way richer now although the Gambino's are doing well from what I understand but there you have it the most successful US mobster of all time yeah and I'm gonna go off and uh and research making a Indiana sucks bull's t-shirt which I think we'll do really well don't don't don't start uh but yeah uh thanks for for bearing with us folks until next week patreon.com all the other stuff you

11.6, which gets turned into a movie in 2013

He wrote a book that I think we've talked about a number of times called Hello Shadowlands, which is just really great. You know, a bunch of different stories exploring the lives of criminals in Southeast Asia.